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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:11 am
by Cao Hong 14
well the way I view this thread now is its simply naming three brave warriors and asking which you think is the bravest. If it was asking that then it should have some such as zhang fei, pang de, gan ning, zhang liao and others as well.

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:31 am
by DaVinc
All 3 were loyal and brave.

My pick? 1) Dian Wei, 2) Zhou Tai 3) Zhao Yun.

With only 10 or so men by this side at a disadvantage, Dian Wei ensured a safety retreat for Cao Cao at Wan against Zhang Xiu (who had Jia Xu at that time). He served his duty in military bravely against Lu Bu (his acts were bravely lunatic), served his duty as a bodyguard in Wan. He suffered over 10 cuts and died from his wounds after awhile. Honestly, it was he way he fought his battles that awed me, vividly described in SGZ records.

Comparing with Zhou Tai on the other hand had close to a thousand men (from Sun Quan), if not, surely more than Dian Wei. Suffered 12 cuts against Shanyue rebels (I don't think they are more powerful than Zhang Xiu) in Xuan city. He did participate in several more campaigns but his roles were not clearly described. Having served Sun Ce and Sun Quan as bodyguard, I would say his efforts are commendable.

Zhao Yun. His act...some say brave. To me, not entirely so. I agree his act was brave but also could have been recorded blantant foolish if he died in his attempt. So to round up, I guess that Zhao Yun knew the situation where baby Liu Chan was kept, probably figured that he could make a swift attempt in & get out alive on a horse (Cao's army might have thought he was surrending, no records of fighting as hard as Dian Wei/Zhou Tai). Hence, his act was SMART more than bravery. Besides, at that point of time, he was needed more with Liu Bei's retreat (only had ten or so calvaries)rather than to attempt a rescue. What if Liu Bei was again under heavy attack and there was no assistance, he might have save the baby and lost his Lord, would Zhao Yun's act still be brave or foolish? Though I don't deny his effort - smart, brave so-so.

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:03 pm
by Guazabara
DaVinc wrote:Zhao Yun. His act...some say brave. To me, not entirely so. I agree his act was brave but also could have been recorded blantant foolish if he died in his attempt.



So which one is it? brave or not ? :lol:

Would you have gone through hundreds of men, in enemy territory to get a baby and then fight your way back. Not to mention that Zhao Yun was there for his lord pretty much all the time.Dian Wei,brave as he was, his deeds were short lived.

Now Im not saying Dian Wei did less in bravery but Zhao Yun outlives,literally his bravery.

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:48 pm
by Striga
The only point I've seen in this forum on Zhao Yun is Chang Ban.
Zhao Yun had been a very selfless general, so many of his achievements were given to others.
The other major bravery of Zhao Yun's was on Zhuge's first northern expedition in which he held off the Wei forces (I believe it was for a full night or something like that) in order to give his troops a chance to retreat. (This may have been in the novel only)

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:57 pm
by Elitemsh
Striga wrote:The only point I've seen in this forum on Zhao Yun is Chang Ban.
Zhao Yun had been a very selfless general, so many of his achievements were given to others.
The other major bravery of Zhao Yun's was on Zhuge's first northern expedition in which he held off the Wei forces (I believe it was for a full night or something like that) in order to give his troops a chance to retreat. (This may have been in the novel only)


There's also Hanzhong. That's what gave him the most fame for bravery.

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:00 am
by Striga
Elitemsh wrote:There's also Hanzhong. That's what gave him the most fame for bravery.


Can you expand on this? :?:

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:18 am
by Dong Zhou
From annotation 3 in Zhao Yun's sgz

In the twenty-fourth year of JianAn (AD 219), Zhao Yun went with Liu Bei to attack Hanzhong. After the Shu army had killed Xiahou Yuan, Cao Cao gathered a large army to Hanzhong in response. There was an incident whereby the Cao army was transporting a large supply of grain to the bottom of the Northern Mountain. Huang Zhong saw that as an opportunity to intercept the food supply and he led his followers as well as Zhao Yun’s to attack the food supply chain. When Huang Zhong failed to return by the scheduled time, Zhao Yun brought along some light cavalry to assist Huang Zhong. After a short period of journeying, they met up with Cao Cao’s main force. Zhao Yun fought with Cao Cao’s vanguard but the latter’s troops were quickly reinforced in large amounts, forcing Zhao Yun to beat a retreat. The Cao army had Zhao Yun’s troops surrounded and by the time Zhao Yun managed to break out of the enemies’ lines, he realized that his subordinate Zhang Zhu was injured. Zhao Yun charged back into the enemies’ midst to rescue Zhang Zhu before they retreated back to their camp. At that time, the governor of Mianyang county Zhang Yi was helping to defend the camp. When he saw the size of the Cao army coming, he shut the gates and refused to defend. Zhao Yun realized of the immensity of the enemy’s troops and found it impossible to defend the camp. Thus he ordered for the gates to be opened, the flags taken down and the beating of drums ceased. When the Cao army arrived at the camp, they suspected of a possible ambush and retreated hastily. Zhao Yun then ordered for the drums to be beaten and also arrows be shot. The Cao army was taken by surprise by the sudden noise and was put to disarray and stampeding and many were drowned in the River Han nearby. The next day, Liu Bei came to Zhao Yun’s camp to inspect the outcome of the battle and could not help but praise Zhao Yun for his bravery. From then on, Zhao Yun was nicknamed among the Shu army as General of Tiger Valor (Hu Wei Jiang Jun).

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:51 pm
by Striga
Lol, an earlier version of the Kong Cheng Ji preformed by Zhuge Liang on Sima Yi, but this time with Zhao Yun and Cao Cao. :lol:

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:43 am
by PhoenixRising
well....

dare to face over ten thousands Wei's legions (historical is not one millions) for saving a baby, going alone facing Wu troops that want to kidnap that baby (again), facing Wei's Cao Cao grand army with tiny little army and being cornered also.....

Zhao Yun's bravery were not compareable.

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:36 am
by Dong Zhou
Yes it is :wink:

On a pedantic note, wasn't Zhang Fei opart of the rescue party when Lady Sun took Liu Shan?