Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

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Whose the bravest?

Zhao Yun
98
45%
Zhou Tai
38
18%
Dian Wei
80
37%
 
Total votes : 216

Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby EternalXDream » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:08 am

I think that all three generals deserve respect for what they have done. I believe that they are equally brave.. that was the main focus, being brave.. not compare the most accomplished or situation better for the kingdom. Dian Wei died protecting his Lord from certain death. Zhou Tai saved his Lord multiple times when certain death was in grasp. Zhao Yun saved a young child in the enemy's grasp when certain death could occur. But.. one situation does not make the person the bravest of the brave. There is too many variables for each officer's situation. I think it is best look at each officer's entire military background for the one who took risk for the better of the kingdom. Of course, I'm not saying I'm right.. but it's just a thought. I don't see any cowardiness in them. BUT to be based on those three events, someone who isn't biased should analyze it.
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:53 am

EternalXDream wrote:I think that all three generals deserve respect for what they have done. I believe that they are equally brave.. that was the main focus, being brave.. not compare the most accomplished or situation better for the kingdom. Dian Wei died protecting his Lord from certain death. Zhou Tai saved his Lord multiple times when certain death was in grasp. Zhao Yun saved a young child in the enemy's grasp when certain death could occur. But.. one situation does not make the person the bravest of the brave. There is too many variables for each officer's situation. I think it is best look at each officer's entire military background for the one who took risk for the better of the kingdom. Of course, I'm not saying I'm right.. but it's just a thought. I don't see any cowardiness in them. BUT to be based on those three events, someone who isn't biased should analyze it.


Quite a truth you have there... and I couldn't agree more... since I'm more Zhao Yun's fan so I consider his feats the best... but putting aside that feelings I do compared with the feats of the other three such as Zhou Tai who saved Sun Quan many times and Dian Wei who gave up his life to preserve Cao Cao's... still I would choose Zhao Yun since besides rescuing Liu Chan he had many leadership capabilities and virtue...
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby PhoenixRising » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:03 am

Hmm...

Zhou Tai recue Sun Quan and badly injured, almost died. he wear armor.

Zhao Yun with brave enough passed many Cao Cao's troops to save his child lord. of course he wear armor too and don't have a heavy injured. he's safe and sound

Dian Wei......without armor protect his lord....and he died

hmmmm....quiet difficult...but i choose Zhao Yun :D
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:02 pm

It is difficult to give a completely fair analysis. Do we go by novel (which can slander a noble death or turning one feat into a super dooper mega feat) or history? What do we count as brave? Sneaking in and out before Wei arrived, it was a gamble but was it brave? Opposing your lord's policy, is that more brave then shielding your lord with your body? Was the empty city ploy desperation or brave and if brave, how brave is it in comparison to other brave things?

Do we judge by one moment or by their entire careers?
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Elitemsh » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:35 pm

The novel was fictional so personally i would only go by history. I think we should try to judge a person's bravery by analysing their entire career not simply one moment.

Sneaking in and out before Wei arrived. I assume you're referring to Zhao Yun here. I do not believe this was true. At the time when Zhao Yun turned back, we know for certain that Cao Cao's cavalry had already caught up with and defeated Liu Bei's army. Only Liu's calvary escaped and Zhao Yun escaped with them for a time. He then turned back after an unknown period of time. The point is that the family were clearly amongst the infantry/civilians whom had been defeated and were currently being captured. We therefore cannot say that Zhao Yun rescued the family before the Wei army arrived. We can, however, say the situation was chaotic and the enemy would probably have been preoccupied with looting and hence Zhao Yun may have been able to sneak in and out relatively unnoticed. We cannot say for sure that he did not encounter enemies.
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Stryke » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:16 am

From what i've read in the novel, I would have to say Dian Wei gets my vote.

The difference between Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun's famous acts (rescusing Ah Dou/Sun Quan) and Dian Wei's stand at Wan castle is essantially what they had hoped to achieve. To accomplish their goals, Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun both would of had to of been, to a certain extent, living. As suicidal as it was for Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun to charge off alone to rescue their respective lords, there was always a little hope that they would make it out alive if they were to succeed.
Dian Wei, on the other hand, went out (intoxicated and drugged) to try and stall the attackers long enough in the hope that Cao Cao would make it out alive. Compared to Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai, Dian Wei's chances of making it out alive were close to none.

For me, it comes down to what you consider more brave, risking your life, or essantially, sacrificing it.
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Zhao Yun of Changshan » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:52 am

Stryke wrote:From what i've read in the novel, I would have to say Dian Wei gets my vote.

The difference between Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun's famous acts (rescusing Ah Dou/Sun Quan) and Dian Wei's stand at Wan castle is essantially what they had hoped to achieve. To accomplish their goals, Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun both would of had to of been, to a certain extent, living. As suicidal as it was for Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun to charge off alone to rescue their respective lords, there was always a little hope that they would make it out alive if they were to succeed.
Dian Wei, on the other hand, went out (intoxicated and drugged) to try and stall the attackers long enough in the hope that Cao Cao would make it out alive. Compared to Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai, Dian Wei's chances of making it out alive were close to none.

For me, it comes down to what you consider more brave, risking your life, or essantially, sacrificing it.



I totally agree, I'd say knowing you are going to die and still giving it your all is one of the finest traits a person could have. In no way do I mean that Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai's actions are not brave, but I think Dian Wei gets this one. Heck even they might have agreed with it when you think of his circumstances.
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:36 am

Zhao Yun of Changshan wrote:I totally agree, I'd say knowing you are going to die and still giving it your all is one of the finest traits a person could have. In no way do I mean that Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai's actions are not brave, but I think Dian Wei gets this one. Heck even they might have agreed with it when you think of his circumstances.


I would like to ask a little question to you then... I don't mean to insult Dian Wei or anything but only wanted to clear up some things on your post. So you are saying that Dian Wei knows that he is going to die but he fought on and giving his best are the bravest. I agree with that but don't you think that both Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai was also at the same situations?

Please remember Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai's circumstances as well...

Zhao Yun turned back (historically) to find the child of Liu Bei taking a dozen of Horsemen with him. He knows his chance are slim to none but yet he still goes into the fray, in the process he lost his dozen follower and was alone riding to and fro the enemy ranks. He find Liu Chan and fought his way out. So I think Zhao Yun too faces death and succeed in his mission in finding Liu Chan. And also don't forget his feat in the river Han where he foiled the taking of Liu Chan by Lady Wu.

Regarding Zhou Tai... his circumstances is also the same, twice in fact. the first was he is at a city where bandits attack and ransack the city where he was in charge of with Sun Quan in his protection. He fought his hard on foot till he met up with Sun Quan and then fought out with his lord safety in his hand, and the second one was during He Fei where Sun Quan was surrounded by Wei's troops. He charges in thrice to get Sun Quan out of the press regardless of his life.

So I think that both men knows that they faces death during their feats. And IMO the three of them are the bravest of the three kingdom period. :D
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Kingdom of Cheng » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:26 pm

I'd have ta say Dian wei. He actually died for his master in order for him to survive.
I mean Zhao Yun would've to but Liu Bei was never really put in that kind of spot.
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Re: Zhao Yun, Dian Wei or Zhou Tai-bravest of the brave

Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:11 am

Kingdom of Cheng wrote:I'd have ta say Dian wei. He actually died for his master in order for him to survive.
I mean Zhao Yun would've to but Liu Bei was never really put in that kind of spot.


Yes for the most of time Liu Bei was always safe because Guan Yu and Zhang Fei was at his side aiding him... However in the battle of Ru Nan if I'm not mistaken it was Zhao Yun who rescued Liu Bei... But as a matter of fact it was Liu Bei's son that is always in danger... And for that Zhao Yun always ready to rescue him... :lol:
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