Dian_Wei wrote:Also i dont want to hear that Liu Bei wasn't a traitor and he was a great general and emperor who was kind to his people.
Dian_Wei wrote: I chose Lu Bu for obvious reasons, though i don't get why he was so hated.
Dian_Wei wrote:And i chose Liu Bei for many reasons. First off he betrayed many more people than Lu Bu did. He betrayed Cao Cao, Yuan Shao, Lu Bu, Liu Zhang, and a few others. He never took it as far as killing them, except for killing Lu Bu,
Dian_Wei wrote: And some of you might say the emperor died, which isn't true, he actually out live Liu Bei by two years.
Dian_Wei wrote: If he didn't have Zhuge he and Sun Quan would have been flushed down the toilet and Chi Bi
Wen Choung wrote:If Liu Bei was really a traitor, he wouldn't have called his kingdom Shu-Han would he?
I mean at least he also had some sort of legitimate claim since he was from the imperial family, whereas Cao Cao and Sun Quan did not.
Agreed.Ok first of all naming his kingdom Shu Han doesn't mean he was still loyal.
Since when? I know he was aiming to be, yet... He didn't actually claim to be the emperor and give his generals titles only one of that class should distribute. You are thinking about Yuan Shu here.He still did make himself emperor.
The kingdom of Shu was based in Yi. I know there is a Ba-Shu in that area, so you may be right. But that doesn't explain the Han suffix.And Shu Han was the name of the provinces that the kingdom was based in just like the capitol of Wei is in the fief of Wei.
Someone more capable and suited would have likely done what Cao Cao wouldn't have, I wouldn't think Liu Bei would have had the power to do something like that.Also there were numerous people that that had more legitimate claims to throne, like Emperor Xian for starters, but he made himself emperor anyways. He was a distant relative of the emperor, the emperor had never even heard of him, so how is it legitimate. Cao Cao was already prime minister to the crumbling empire, if he didn't take power than Liu Bei would have anyways
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