Zhou Yu the Great

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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:47 pm

The novel made Zhou Yu fodder for Zhuge Liang. In history he was brave, kind, humble and loyal to Wu to the very end. He was also an excellent judge of character, having Lu Su and Lu Meng both lined up for his succession. Brave in the way that he fought with his men at the front, kind and humble in that, while others like Cheng Pu belittled him for being so young, he kept a calm, cool head and eventually won them over. Loyal, I don't even need to say. He took quite a bit of authority from Sun Quan, but he still fought for the future of Wu. When Sun Quan was made emperor of Wu, he claimed that Zhou Yu was the one and only person who made it possible.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Striga » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:16 am

This may also have to do with Zhou Yu’s grains saving the Sun family and their army at one point.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:31 am

Striga wrote:Was this truly his nature, as in your statement, there are no downfalls of Zhou Yu mentioned.


RE: Zhou Yu's nature and character

This is what is mentioned regarding Zhou Gongjin:

Taken from Zhou Yu's comprehensive bio wrote:(5) According to Zhou Yu’s biography in Sanguozhi, Zhou Yu returned briefly to Shouchun to request his reassignment to Juchao County. This was a smart move on Zhou Yu’s part, which proves that Zhou Yu had no interest in flowery titles and rank. Under Yuan Shu, Zhou Yu could possibly have attained a high military and civil rank, instead he settled for Chief of a small county in his native Commandery of Lujiang. This way, Zhou Yu would not have to be involved with Yuan Shu, and would place him in the middle of Shouchun and Qua. For more information on ranks on County/Commandery level, see De Crespigny, South China under the Later Han.


Taken from Zhou Yu's comprehensive bio wrote:(7)... It says that Zhou Yu was called “Young Gentleman Zhou”, and that his sympathetic and trustworthy nature was well known in the area of Lujiang Commandery.


Taken from Zhou Yu's comprehensive bio wrote:(17) Generals of the South, Sanguo Zhi quotiong Jiangbiao Zhuan. Cheng Pu said: “To be with Zhou Gongjin is to drink cold wine unmixed with water: you become drunk before you realise it.” Also in Jiangbiao Zhuan, the late Lady Wu said that, “Gongjin is like a son to me.” It is clear that Zhou Yu was loved and trusted by many people, and respected for his wisdom and talent.


I haven't read anything as of to date that demeans him in any way other than that which is mentioned in SGYY.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Striga » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:32 am

How did he die? Of illness?
I would have expected LGZ to have portrayed him a bit more accurately, rather than making him seem so bad. :cry:
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:42 am

Zhou Yu's historical death was pretty vague in description.

Sun Quan accepted his proposal and Zhou Yu returned to JiangLing to make preparations. However, Zhou Yu died of sickness on his way to Ba Qiu. He was only 36 years old then.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Striga » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:02 am

:cry: Then that means if Zhou Yu lived, Wu may have stood a chance in defeating Wei in one of their offensives.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:11 am

Striga wrote:How did he die? Of illness?
I would have expected LGZ to have portrayed him a bit more accurately, rather than making him seem so bad. :cry:


It's a trade off, Zhou Yu's nice guy personality gets changed to one seething with jealousy but his abilities get boosted so he becomes a great strategist. Whether that is a good trade off is another matter but it makes for an entertaining novel rivalry till Sima Yi comes along and builds ZGL's reputation in the eyes of the reader. So makes sense really.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:07 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:It's a trade off, Zhou Yu's nice guy personality gets changed to one seething with jealousy but his abilities get boosted so he becomes a great strategist. Whether that is a good trade off is another matter but it makes for an entertaining novel rivalry till Sima Yi comes along and builds ZGL's reputation in the eyes of the reader. So makes sense really.


He might be boosted as a strategist but it takes away from his ability as a commander. I mean Rafe has a very high opinion of Zhou Yu and desrcibes him thusly 'though his future achievements were to rank him as one of the finest military commanders of his time'. Rafe appears to place him higher than both Sun Ce and Jian as a commander, whilst I think this is going to far I would agree that he is one of the greatest commanders of the era.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:51 pm

I'm not sure his abilities as a commander are diminished, he just becomes a lot smarter with a jealousy issue. Why do you consider his command abilities diminished?
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:55 pm

Chi Bi is his first independant command in the novel as he was always kept by Ce's side in the novel (as his main strategist to be sure but diminishes from his skill as a commander). Also ChiBi is seen purely as a strategist's victory, the fire attack etc and the fact that there was a battle after the fire attack is over looked constantly. Pretty much all the credit for the battle goes to Huang Gai and ZGL. /Rant over
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