Zhou Yu the Great

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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:35 pm

Cheng Pu was medicore, Gan Ning was a very good officer but a CiC? While I'm not a fan of Lonely-dragon, would agree with the basic point though Lu Meng soon showed he was capable of leading a camapign and perhaps should have replaced Lu Su earlier then Lu Su's death
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Cheng Pu was medicore, Gan Ning was a very good officer but a CiC? While I'm not a fan of Lonely-dragon, would agree with the basic point though Lu Meng soon showed he was capable of leading a camapign and perhaps should have replaced Lu Su earlier then Lu Su's death


Your quite anti Cheng Pu aren't you?

I don't know enough about his career to disagree but the one thing I will say is that he served the Sun family for years, was often seen as leader of the military faction and was Zhou Yu's chosen 2nd in command. I guess that in itself is a negitive point, if he was that good he'd of been chosen over the far less experienced Yu....
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:28 pm

While I'm not a fan of Lonely-dragon


meant Zhou Yu. Sorry for that accidental flame [<3]

Yeah mediocre was harsh, he seems to have been a decent guy and a wise old head to have around, I just wonder if that was why he was given 2nd in command, to add that experience to Zhou Yu's side. Just doesn't make him a CiC
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:49 am

Dong Zhou wrote:
While I'm not a fan of Lonely-dragon


meant Zhou Yu. Sorry for that accidental flame [<3]

Yeah mediocre was harsh, he seems to have been a decent guy and a wise old head to have around, I just wonder if that was why he was given 2nd in command, to add that experience to Zhou Yu's side. Just doesn't make him a CiC


No problem Dong... :lol:

Other than that... I think Cao Cao still has decent armies so they can hold their own should Zhou Yu attacks... Sun Quan haven't manage to win at He Fei if I'm not mistaken...
"Know yourself Know your enemy you can win 100 battles, Know yourself and know not the enemy find win and defeat in equal measures, Know not yourself and know not the enemy defeated in every battle." Sun Tzu
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:23 pm

Lonely_dragon wrote:
Kong Ming 88 wrote:Zhou Yu should had the most sympathy point. Luo Guan Zhong had made Zhou Yu very unpopular.

In fact, Zhou Yu was broad minded and a great leader. Politically, Zhou Yu and Lu Su has a different point of view when it come to deal with Liu Bei. Lu Su support Shu and Wu alliance, whereas Zhou Yu oppose to it as Zhou Yu afraid Liu Bei will become a threat to Wu in the future.

Nevertheless, before Zhou Yu died, he recommended Lu Su as his successor. Not many people can do that especially when they have a different approach in the politic arena. This show Zhou Yu put priority when it come to country affair and put aside personal differences

Long Live Zhou Yu


Hmm perhaps Zhou Yu knew that Wu didn't had a good offensive commander that is his equal... I mean Zhou Yu did defeat the massive Cao Cao's force at Chibi... And perhaps he thinks it is better to maintain the relations with Shu untill a great commander such as Lu Meng, Lu Xun etc to gain more experience so that one day they might unite China under Wu banner.


I believe this went along with his thought process - at least what I believe about it. If you are to be a great strategist and commander you must also look beyond the current situation into what may become. He did show how much regard and respect he truly deserved by requesting that someone who had a different ideal on how to deal with Liu Bei to become his successor. The selfish push their agenda even to its own peril when there are those who can speak over their voice after they die.

It may be that he knew it would be best for Wu during the more immediate future so that when the time would come to move into the vision he had in regards to relationship with Liu Bei, Wu would be ready. He was not without those who gave ear to his voice.

I don't believe in worshipping men however, for as short as his life was he should be regarded with as much respect as Guan Yu or any of those who were deified. I do like the way he is portrayed in Red Cliff and with some respect to how his relationship with Kongming is portrayed as well.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Shen Ai » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:36 am

I plain admire Zhou Yu. In the novels he was the first to match Zhuge Liang. In history he was chosen over more experienced generals to lead the forces at Chi Bi. Lu Meng and Lu Su were his disciples and he passed on his will teachings to both. He treated his men well, and even though Cheng Pu belittled him, he was able to gain his respect and eventually become a close friend of the man. He probably had a hand in the fire attack. I mean the plan must have been co his. At Jiangling he was facing Cao Ren, an experienced general who is worth his salt and was able to overcome him. Granted it took a year, but he did it, even after he was injured and he fought alongside his men. He died young, so maybe he wasn't able to accomplish much else, but maybe if he had lived, I'm sure he could have achieved the same result Lu Meng could have at Jing. I mean, Wei did most of the work, routing Guan Yu and all. All he had to do is kick some butt and charge around cities. Oh and evade detection, but it wasn't really that hard, not after Xu Huang handed Guan Yu his @$$.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:47 am

He probably had a hand in the fire attack. I mean the plan must have been co his


Why? Zhou Yu was not a noted strategist (unlike Lu Meng) and had to rely on other people's advice in other camapigns, Huang Gai was an experienced and intelligent general. Why then must it be a joint plan rather then, as the sgz says, Huang Gai's?

I'm sure he could have achieved the same result Lu Meng could have at Jing. I mean, Wei did most of the work, routing Guan Yu and all. All he had to do is kick some butt and charge around cities. Oh and evade detection, but it wasn't really that hard, not after Xu Huang handed Guan Yu his @$$.


Sorry, remind me who else pulled off a near bloodless camapign that seized an entire province so quickly? Even if it was more common then the one-off that it was, Lu Meng was a brilliant strategist but Zhou Yu wasn't so why would Zhou Yu, of all people, be able to pull off the same feat?
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Shen Ai » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:07 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
He probably had a hand in the fire attack. I mean the plan must have been co his


Why? Zhou Yu was not a noted strategist (unlike Lu Meng) and had to rely on other people's advice in other camapigns, Huang Gai was an experienced and intelligent general. Why then must it be a joint plan rather then, as the sgz says, Huang Gai's?

I'm sure he could have achieved the same result Lu Meng could have at Jing. I mean, Wei did most of the work, routing Guan Yu and all. All he had to do is kick some butt and charge around cities. Oh and evade detection, but it wasn't really that hard, not after Xu Huang handed Guan Yu his @$$.


Sorry, remind me who else pulled off a near bloodless camapign that seized an entire province so quickly? Even if it was more common then the one-off that it was, Lu Meng was a brilliant strategist but Zhou Yu wasn't so why would Zhou Yu, of all people, be able to pull off the same feat?

Well he was a general of talent, enough for Sun Quan to put great trust in him and for Sun Ce to recommend him. The Sun family made some good choices in terms of officers, like Lu Meng and Lu Xun and Cheng Pu and Zhu Ran. Lu Meng is brilliant, I would say even better than Gongjin and Boyan, but he was an opportunist. Smart maybe, but the entire campaign hinged on the fact that Guan Yu was occupied at Fancheng and with Xu Huang. Lu Meng dusted a province without a leader and took control of it when the leader returned defeated and exhausted. A clever move, but great strategy isn't needed here. Good timing and effective leadership is. There were no other intricate schemes involved in the Jing conquest. Zhuge Liang, Deng Ai, SIma Yi and even Jiang Wei could have done the same due to the circumstances.

As for Jiangling, Zhou Yu did have a hand in taking down Cao Ren. Ren isn't useless, I mean he did okay and he's worth noting. Lu Meng convinced Zhou Yu to leave an ambush of 300 to attack Cao Ren. It paid off, but they would have escaped if Zhou hadn't blocked off the route on his own discretion. He used his wounds to lure in the enemy and fought alongside his men bravely.I respect him for his bravery which is really without question. Zhuge Liang was happy to hide behind his army in order to survive. It paid off, but I would prefer to serve a general who share's his mens experiences, not leaving it to them to get on with.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:18 pm

Shen Ai wrote:I plain admire Zhou Yu. In the novels he was the first to match Zhuge Liang. In history he was chosen over more experienced generals to lead the forces at Chi Bi. Lu Meng and Lu Su were his disciples and he passed on his will teachings to both. He treated his men well, and even though Cheng Pu belittled him, he was able to gain his respect and eventually become a close friend of the man. He probably had a hand in the fire attack. I mean the plan must have been co his. At Jiangling he was facing Cao Ren, an experienced general who is worth his salt and was able to overcome him. Granted it took a year, but he did it, even after he was injured and he fought alongside his men. He died young, so maybe he wasn't able to accomplish much else, but maybe if he had lived, I'm sure he could have achieved the same result Lu Meng could have at Jing. I mean, Wei did most of the work, routing Guan Yu and all. All he had to do is kick some butt and charge around cities. Oh and evade detection, but it wasn't really that hard, not after Xu Huang handed Guan Yu his @$$.


I may be the biggest Gongjin fanboy at times but, he wasn't as great as he was boosted up be. That may have been done to add more intelligence and strategy credit to Kongming. For instance, historically Lu Fan was Sun Ce's top strategist (SGYY took some of his merits and hand delivered them to Gongjin) and he also had intelligence aid from Zhu Zhi. Zhou Yu on the other hand was one of his top generals. SGYY also took away Huang Gai's intelligent ploy and gave that to Zhou Yu. Reason being, likely, Luo Guanzhong needed as much as he could get in order to make Kongming god-like when he would author how he killed Zhou Yu. If Zhou Yu was able to do all those amazing things, how can Zhuge Liang not be magnificent if he was able to anger him to death?

Lu Meng was definitively the better of the two. Lu Meng also served as an advisor to Zhou Yu during battles. I believe someone in the SGYY sub-forum mentioned that Zhou Yu was great at taking excellent advice and using it to his advantage (paraphrasing by myself).

I agree with Dong Zhou's comment.
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Re: Zhou Yu the Great

Unread postby Shen Ai » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:21 pm

I somewhat amended my statement with the second comment. Read that one and I think my views will be plain.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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