Wei Yan

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What do you think of Wei Yan?

Traitor to the Kingdom of Shu!
41
15%
Not particularly loyal or disloyal...
69
25%
Not sure what I think (please explain)
13
5%
Wei Yan was loyal to the Shu Flag!
151
55%
 
Total votes : 274

Unread postby Han Xin » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:20 pm

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:ok ok ok. u have a point, if ZL did listen and atacck chang an, then it would hav ebeen good for for SHU, but in general, he was a officer of shu and i did what hsi job was. just like everty general. he was powerful but also had no intention to be under liu bei for long. i feel that he just used li bei till the day came to take control and establish him self as a ruler.


That is a load of crap. Wei Yan never had any intension of betraying anyone. Even if he garrison HanZhong, even Zhuge Liang and the entired army of Shu would not have beaten him.

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:i talking out my butt but i am totally anti wei yan, especiall when someones considers him to be the second best and second to zhang fei, when zhang fei was just a general with brute power and limited brain power and it was that brute power and huge ego that got him killed just like weiyan, defining orders to do something of his own idea, when he was order other wise.


Yes in term of contributing to Shu, Wei Yan was only second to Zhang Fei up untill 220AD. After the death of Zhang Fei, Wei Yan was the only great general left in Shu. Zhang Fei was never a drunk and a brutal general, during the re-enforcement of YiZhou, Zhang Fei did all the thinking for himself, Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun as well. Of all the 5-Tigers, Zhang Fei actually was the smartest one.

Wei Yan was never killed by how it was describe in a fictional book, he was killed by a false order from Yang Yi. It was Yang Yi who was actually the real traitor and rebel, not Wei Yan.
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Unread postby Chao Tzu Lung1 » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:36 pm

Han Xin wrote:That is a load of crap. Wei Yan never had any intension of betraying anyone. Even if he garrison HanZhong, even Zhuge Liang and the entired army of Shu would not have beaten him.

Yes in term of contributing to Shu, Wei Yan was only second to Zhang Fei up untill 220AD. After the death of Zhang Fei, Wei Yan was the only great general left in Shu. Zhang Fei was never a drunk and a brutal general, during the re-enforcement of YiZhou, Zhang Fei did all the thinking for himself, Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun as well. Of all the 5-Tigers, Zhang Fei actually was the smartest one.

Wei Yan was never killed by how it was describe in a fictional book, he was killed by a false order from Yang Yi. It was Yang Yi who was actually the real traitor and rebel, not Wei Yan.


see i didn;t know that, lol thxs for clearing up that for me

the way it is potray to me, wei yan was a abd ass on the battle field, and un equal in power but when it came to his peronal feelings with ZL, he wanted to go against him because they just didn;t get along. i cam ino this hatin gwei yan, but beacuse of yall, start to be a pro -wei yan, because the way SGYY describes him , he was great indeed, did far more than ma chao at least, but i don;t he could equal to zhao yun.

also let me state that wei yan became so after the death of zhang fei, zhao yun and huang zhong (unequal in power i mean)
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Unread postby Han Xin » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:38 pm

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:the way it is potray to me, wei yan was a abd ass on the battle field, and un equal in power but when it came to his peronal feelings with ZL, he wanted to go against him because they just didn;t get along. i cam ino this hatin gwei yan, but beacuse of yall, start to be a pro -wei yan, because the way SGYY describes him , he was great indeed, did far more than ma chao at least, but i don;t he could equal to zhao yun.


How do I put it? Zhao Yun was not that great... :roll:
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Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:53 pm

Han Xin wrote:How do I put it? Zhao Yun was not that great... :roll:


I think Zhao Yun was that great. I've posted in other threads defending Zhao Yun and I'll do the same here.
Zhao Yun had the responsibility of protecting the Liu lineage. That is an important job. He also participated in almost every important battle of Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang. So what if he wasnt a general who wanted power and authority. He was a general that did his job.

Was Zhao Yun ever given orders by Wei Yan?
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
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One more thing

Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:55 pm

Is there a site that has Wei Yan's SGZ bio?
There is no way to say what Wei Yan accomplished by referrencing to SGYY.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
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Unread postby Chao Tzu Lung1 » Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:05 pm

Han Xin wrote:How do I put it? Zhao Yun was not that great... :roll:


lol well put :wink:
i think with till his old age and loyalty to shu , helped them get very far with his skill and power. mayn times liu bei life and ZL plans would have been in trouble
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Re: One more thing

Unread postby Pang Shiyuan » Thu Aug 08, 2002 9:59 pm

Zhao Zilong wrote:Is there a site that has Wei Yan's SGZ bio?
There is no way to say what Wei Yan accomplished by referrencing to SGYY.


Yes there is. LGZ simply couldn't brush of Wei Yan's significance to Shu-Han in SGYY, so naturally he had no choice but to accredit some of his millitary successes in the book.
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Unread postby Han Xin » Fri Aug 09, 2002 1:27 am

Zhao Zilong wrote:I think Zhao Yun was that great. I've posted in other threads defending Zhao Yun and I'll do the same here.
Zhao Yun had the responsibility of protecting the Liu lineage. That is an important job.


At DangYang, it was Zhang Fei that did all the job in fighting Cao Cao's troops, all Zhao Yun did was relocate and bring Liu Shan back to Liu Bei. Anyone of Liu Bei's officers could do the job not just Zhao Yun. Zhao Yun just got lucky and milked everything from it.

Zhao Zilong wrote:He also participated in almost every important battle of Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang. So what if he wasnt a general who wanted power and authority. He was a general that did his job.


Oh? Which battle? What did he do?

Zhao Zilong wrote:Was Zhao Yun ever given orders by Wei Yan?


Oh yeah? Zhuge Liang, the PM of Shu never gives order to Wei Yan as well. However, Zhao Yun was ordered around like a slave.

Who between Wei Yan and Zhao Yun was given the second in command?
Who between Wei Yan and Zhao Yun was given the given the governorship of HanZhong?
Who between Wei Yan and Zhao Yun was the leading general of Liu Bei's campaign?
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Unread postby Han Xin » Fri Aug 09, 2002 1:34 am

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:lol sorry that was just my opinion of we i yen intentions , mid set which is impossible to prove :roll:


If that was the case, then it also impossible to prove Zhuge Liang, Jiang Wan, Dong Yun, Zhao Yun loyalty to Shu as well. Wei Yan never betray anyone, therefore it is crazy to speculate if he was a rebel or not.

Chao Tzu Lung1 wrote:zhang fei the smartest one?!?!?, i don;t know about all that, he didn;t do show that much with lu bu and cao bao. but my info is based on SGYY, so actual fact, i am way off.


Zhang Fei like other people was made a fool because he was around Zhuge Liang. The re-enforcement of YiZhou was all Zhang Fei's work, yet LGZ love for ZL was great, therefore he have to make Zhang Fei look like an idiot so that ZL would look good. If you read SGYY again, such incident was very common.
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Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Sun Aug 11, 2002 8:26 pm

Han Xin, you missed the meaning of my question. I didnt use a sarcastic tone when I asked if Zhao Yun was ever given orders by Wei Yan. I was actually asking a question. I wanted to know if Wei Yan was ever in command of Zhao Yun, that if Wei Yan used Zhao Yun as an officer.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
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