Wei Yan

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What do you think of Wei Yan?

Traitor to the Kingdom of Shu!
41
15%
Not particularly loyal or disloyal...
69
25%
Not sure what I think (please explain)
13
5%
Wei Yan was loyal to the Shu Flag!
151
55%
 
Total votes : 274

Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Zhilong » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:00 pm

Striga wrote:
Zhilong wrote:
Striga wrote:They were good. My bias about Zhuge Liang's bad judgement may come from Liu Bei's excellent judgement, and his failure on trusting Ma Su to lead an important army when he was only suited for diplomatic missions.


Liu Bei was not always right though. He got himself into many desperate situations.



I meant with people, not situations. The situations was Kongming's strength, and people was Xuande's.


Li Yan, Guan Yu, Lu Bu were all ppl Liu Bei misjudged.
"You weaver of mats! You plaiter of straw shoes! You have been smart enough to get possession of a large region and elbow your way into the ranks of the nobles. I was just going to attack you, and now you dare to scheme against me! How I detest you!"
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Striga » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:48 pm

I don't remember Li Yan, but Liu Bei judged Guan Yu as loyal, and didn't think the arrogance would hurt. He didn't have much choice with Lü Bu. Without Lü Bu's alliance, he would have had an even harder time holding Xuzhou.
"Immense power is fun! You should try it sometime." -Syndra (favourite quote XD)
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:04 am

I agree. Guan Yu may have been reckless but he was still talented at least, in that he could hold his own in a battle. He might have taken the castle had it not been for Wu, but I'm sure that Xu Huang would have stopped him before long, so...
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Elitemsh » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:11 pm

Shen Ai wrote:I agree. Guan Yu may have been reckless but he was still talented at least, in that he could hold his own in a battle. He might have taken the castle had it not been for Wu, but I'm sure that Xu Huang would have stopped him before long, so...


Xu Huang defeated Guan Yu and forced him to retreat before Guan Yu even knew of Wu's attack.

To be fair it might actually be Zhuge Liang who made a judgment error regarding Guan Yu and not Liu Bei. After all it was Zhuge Liang who was in overall command of Jing when Liu Bei left for Yi. It is possible that it was Zhuge Liang's call to leave Guan Yu in Jing, unless of course Liu Bei specifically ordered that when he requested reinforcements from Liang. I don't think we know for sure either way. It's probable though that Liu Bei made the decision. He left Guan Yu in charge of territory before (Xia Pi). It's not like there were any other suitable canditates apart from Liang himself and Liu Bei must have felt he needed Liang desperately in Yi presumably (for after it was conquered).
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Striga » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:04 pm

Liang may have been trying to be too smart, when Liu Bei just sent Guan Ping because Guan Ping volunteered, or was the first person Liu Bei saw.
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Zhilong » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:06 am

Striga wrote:I don't remember Li Yan, but Liu Bei judged Guan Yu as loyal, and didn't think the arrogance would hurt. He didn't have much choice with Lü Bu. Without Lü Bu's alliance, he would have had an even harder time holding Xuzhou.


Lu Bu was the direct reason he lost Xuzhou. lol

Li Yan didn't care about Liu Bei's dream and only sought to increase his own power.

Guan Yu was probably lack of choice to leave in Jing. In defending Jing alone he did fine, he managed to keep the region all that time which was no easy feat.

However, Mi Fang and Fu Shiren. Were they appointed by Guan Yu or Liu Bei?
"You weaver of mats! You plaiter of straw shoes! You have been smart enough to get possession of a large region and elbow your way into the ranks of the nobles. I was just going to attack you, and now you dare to scheme against me! How I detest you!"
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Striga » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:15 pm

Mi Fang and Fu Shi Ren were appointed first by Liu Bei (Mi Fang was under Tao Qian I believe) however, it was Guan Yu's attitude, and threats that led to their betrayal.
With the Lü Bu thing, it was either lose it to one or the other. I think he may have planned on getting them to attrition each other to death. :)
"Immense power is fun! You should try it sometime." -Syndra (favourite quote XD)
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