Wei Yan

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What do you think of Wei Yan?

Traitor to the Kingdom of Shu!
41
15%
Not particularly loyal or disloyal...
69
25%
Not sure what I think (please explain)
13
5%
Wei Yan was loyal to the Shu Flag!
151
55%
 
Total votes : 274

Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:53 pm

Fei Yi would have changed a lot, had he lived a bit longer. I wonder if Jiang Wei and Wei Yan would ever get along. They have that reckless feel to them...
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Striga » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:49 am

Jiang Wei was liked by Zhuge Liang, while Wei Yan was almost killed by Zhuge Liang on their first encounter. The jealousy may make a huge problem. Go figure.
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:35 pm

Yes, I suppose there would be a large degree of jealousy.
I heard in the novel that there was a distinctive physical feature of Wei Yan that made people distrust him. I haven't read it for a longtime, so what was that feature? If any?
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:27 pm

I don't recall that in the novel
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:40 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:I don't recall that in the novel

My memory is vague but I do recall reading an except somewhere where Zhuge Liang said that the shape of Wei Yan's skull meant he was untrustworthy (presented as reason to kill him, along with Han Xuan's death); might be something that's only in some versions. I don't see it in either of the two online versions I use, at least.
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:30 pm

That's what I was thinking off. There was said to be an odd arch in his head or something... hmmm.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Hyper90 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:42 am

Shen Ai wrote:That's what I was thinking off. There was said to be an odd arch in his head or something... hmmm.


whaaa.. ? does that relates his DW model has a horn on his forehead ?
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. " Sima Yi

take a look please
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Zhilong » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:56 pm

Striga wrote:They were good. My bias about Zhuge Liang's bad judgement may come from Liu Bei's excellent judgement, and his failure on trusting Ma Su to lead an important army when he was only suited for diplomatic missions.


Liu Bei was not always right though. He got himself into many desperate situations.

Shen Ai wrote:Wei Yan and Jiang Wei... I heard that Fei Yi did the same thing to Jiang Wei that Zhuge Liang did to Wei Yan. He gave him less troops and made him more of an adviser than a general. The same happened to Wei Yan.


I have never read anything about ZL limiting Wei Yan's troops. Asking Wei Yan for advice is not something i have heard of ZL doing but i suppose it is like asking Zhang Zhao for advice on military matters in the novel - do the opposite of what he says and you're good. :D

Shen Ai wrote:Wei Yan was treated the same way by Zhuge Liang. He was kept under quick scrutiny and always held fewer troops than most. Wei Yan was almost always under Zhuge Liang's command.


What is the source for Wei Yan holding fewer troops than most?

Wei Yan was one of the few generals, ZL gave independent command to. He sent him behind enemy lines to attack the Wei invaders and to take Wudu and Yinping. Seldom did ZL ever give generals commands like that. He also had Wei Yan guard the rear - that shows a huge amount of trust.

While ZL lived, Wei Yan was utilised but the minute ZL died, no one had could tolerate Wei Yan. Even Fei Yi who was often the peacemaker between him and Yang Yi immediately scarpered and saw Wei Yan as a threat. Back at court, no one supported Wei Yan's actions when they received the memorials Yang Yi and Wei Yan sent.

Striga wrote:Jiang Wei was liked by Zhuge Liang, while Wei Yan was almost killed by Zhuge Liang on their first encounter. The jealousy may make a huge problem. Go figure.


This is from the novel and similarly Zhuge Liang had his life threatened by Jiang Wei once too when Jiang Wei surprise attacked the former's camp, causing him to flee.

I don't think ZL was jealous of Wei Yan but in the novel he was rightfully suspicious although ZL was a jerk too, trying to roast Wei Yan with Sima Yi in the valley.
"You weaver of mats! You plaiter of straw shoes! You have been smart enough to get possession of a large region and elbow your way into the ranks of the nobles. I was just going to attack you, and now you dare to scheme against me! How I detest you!"
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Striga » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:44 pm

Zhilong wrote:
Striga wrote:They were good. My bias about Zhuge Liang's bad judgement may come from Liu Bei's excellent judgement, and his failure on trusting Ma Su to lead an important army when he was only suited for diplomatic missions.


Liu Bei was not always right though. He got himself into many desperate situations.



I meant with people, not situations. The situations was Kongming's strength, and people was Xuande's.
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Re: Wei Yan

Unread postby Shen Ai » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:04 am

Yeah, Zhuge Liang could judge a situation well, but Liu Xuande was a bit off and on in terms of talent. Much like Cao Cao, who did well, but not always.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
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