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Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:27 am
by Dong Zhou
Shu wasn't going to be stupid enough to reject defectors so would have had him anyway. Hardly Jiang Wei's fault that Fei Yi had no protection

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:16 pm
by Gray Riders
I was actually joking about blaming Jiang Wei for Fei Yi's assassination, though looking back at the post it doesn't come across very well. It was kind of a "Jiang Wei gets blamed for everything may as well blame him for this, too" kind of thing.

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:34 pm
by Dong Zhou
Gray Riders wrote:I was actually joking about blaming Jiang Wei for Fei Yi's assassination, though looking back at the post it doesn't come across very well. It was kind of a "Jiang Wei gets blamed for everything may as well blame him for this, too" kind of thing.


I knew your post was a joke, less sure about PhoenixRising's

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:11 pm
by Jordan
I like the idea that Jiang Wei was completely toxic to Shu-Han though. Seems funny to me.

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:19 pm
by Habast
I remember having this discussion with somebody on another site before. Ah, memories. :D

Jiang Wei didn't always make the best decisions, but wouldn't say that he killed Shu. I'd say he was a loyal and competent commander who tried his best with what he was given, but he just wasn't the right man for the job. I say he was a fine commander when he wasn't the man in charge of the entire army, but he just wasn't suited to being in control. That, along with Wei's crippling superiority and at least a dozen other factors led to Shu's downfall. It had always been the massive underdog and despite a valiant effort by many talented people, they really never had much of a chance.

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:51 am
by Striga
Jordan wrote:I like the idea that Jiang Wei was completely toxic to Shu-Han though. Seems funny to me.

Not toxic. He was an intelligent person, with too much confidence, and enemies who were better commanders. Still, he managed to bring Zhong Hui and Deng Ai down with him.
There may have been a better commander than him, but he was the one who took on the role.

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:18 am
by Dong Zhou
Habast wrote: I'd say he was a loyal and competent commander who tried his best with what he was given,


Ignored his advisers and allied with the corrupt. The first I can buy as trying his best but the second?

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:58 pm
by Elitemsh
I think this guy, Wei Yan and Guan Yu were all in the same category. All three were quite skilful in the right circumstances but they couldn't control their inflated egos. Zhuge Liang used Wei Yan cleverly but Guan Yu and Jiang Wei were given way too much power. I think someone said once that Wei Yan was good so long as he was kept on a leash. I think the same should be said of Guan Yu and Jiang Wei. Useful potentially but they were very risky assets to have.

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:43 am
by Dong Zhou
I would agree with that. Had Jiang Wei never made it as CIC, he would probably be remembered as a very skilled Shu general. It was just he was poorly suited to be CIC

Re: Jiang Wei, the killer of a kingdom?

Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:28 am
by Striga
Elitemsh wrote:I think this guy, Wei Yan and Guan Yu were all in the same category. All three were quite skilful in the right circumstances but they couldn't control their inflated egos. Zhuge Liang used Wei Yan cleverly but Guan Yu and Jiang Wei were given way too much power. I think someone said once that Wei Yan was good so long as he was kept on a leash. I think the same should be said of Guan Yu and Jiang Wei. Useful potentially but they were very risky assets to have.

You missed Ma Su as well. Ego and leadership apparently don't go hand in hand. I guess the position simply drives them over the top.
Dong Zhou wrote:I would agree with that. Had Jiang Wei never made it as CIC, he would probably be remembered as a very skilled Shu general. It was just he was poorly suited to be CIC

Who would have been a better choice. Shu was pretty badly off in terms of skill and manpower after Jiang Wan and Fei Yi died off.