Differences between Three Kingdoms novel and history…

Best threads of the SGYYS, for your viewing pleasure.

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:28 pm

A crew of awesome people at this site are translating biographies of certain people from the San Guo Zhi, but the actual book is huge - the copy (in traditional Chinese) in my local Chinese bookstore is about the size of a collection of encyclopaedia volumes. I think there was one translated version a long time ago that is now out of print, and someone at this forum mentioned that they owned it.
User avatar
CaTigeReptile
Langzhong
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:58 pm
Location: Cheng Yu's bacon

I See

Unread postby Pang Tong X » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:39 pm

Ah ok , thank you .
Nothing is impossible to a man of strong will - Chu Yuan-chang
User avatar
Pang Tong X
Tyro
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:07 pm

Unread postby timon » Thu May 22, 2003 5:47 pm

Zhang Fei did not go around and beat his subordinates in a drunken stupor! Unless someone else has proof. SGYY says yes, he was a drunk, but SGZ does not go into that detail.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.
User avatar
timon
Changshi
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:58 pm
Location: in the great expanse of darkness called space

Unread postby jiuwan » Fri May 23, 2003 1:21 am

perze wrote:Zhang Fei did not go around and beat his subordinates in a drunken stupor! Unless someone else has proof. SGYY says yes, he was a drunk, but SGZ does not go into that detail.


You want proof? Ask and you shall receive.

In Zhang Fei's SGZ bio:

Guan Yu treated his subordinates very well, but was arrogant to the offials and other generals. While Zhang Fei was very good to his peers, but was very abusive to his subordinates.
Liu Bei warned him: "You kill excessively and whip the soldiers. You leave the punished at your side. One day you'll meet disaster with your subordinates. This is the path to disaster."
Zhang Fei was worried, but didn't repent.

SGZ didn't specified if he was drunk during one of the times or not. BUT he did do it often.
jiuwan
Marquis of Shun Ping
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:46 am

SGYY reliabilty

Unread postby Zhao Zilong » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:24 pm

I would like to know the credibility of Luo Guanzhong's SGYY.

I think SGYY is a good portrayal of the San Guo period. But too many posts refer to SGYY as a ripoff of history.

I've seen previous posts of people listing petty examples of differences between the novel and history but that is not what I am asking for.

Instead of just saying "It is fictional," can someone share evidence that it is not entirely accurate? A link to a website or a book would be helpful.

Perhaps I am asking a question to braod to be specifically answered. After all, saying that something is accurate or not is a matter of human opinion, right?

Thanks in advance.
"Do not bar the gates," said Zhao Zilong. "Have you never heard of my exploit at Dangyang, when I laughed at Cao Cao's many legions? Now that I have an army at my back and generals to help, what is there to fear?"
~SGYY, Chapter 71, Paragraph 119
User avatar
Zhao Zilong
Master
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 12:44 am
Location: Chengdu

Unread postby Ultimateweapon » Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:33 pm

So was Zhang Fei really killed in his sleep by his "Subordinates"? And How many of the other ones did that...
Ultimateweapon--The Bearer Of The True Rune

"Remember Kids ,Guns don't kill people. TREES DO!!!!."

Sun_Quan Lord of the Wu Army(I'm that name at other forums)
Ultimateweapon
Initiate
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 7:19 pm
Location: Toran Republic

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:55 pm

Ultimateweapon wrote:So was Zhang Fei really killed in his sleep by his "Subordinates"? And How many of the other ones did that...


It doesn't say it was in his sleep. In Zhang Fei's SGZ it just says he was tasked with some tens of thousands of troops and was supposed to meet up at Jingzhou from Langzhong. Before his arrival, his subordinates Zhang Da and Fan Qiang killed him and brought his decapitated head to Sun Quan to surrender. Though there's isn't a mention of Zhang Fei beating them it does say in his biography that he was cruel to his subordinates, and that's probably what caused his death.
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

Unread postby Ez8 » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:36 pm

Not wishing to be rude or anything, but how reliable are most of the "actual facts" posted by people on this thread?

Please don't tell me that they think they know what are the "actual facts" just because they watched some VCDs/played some games/read some websites.

It seems to me that a lot of people just happen to come across some bits of information from some questionable sources, thinks that it makes them knowledgeable, and proceed deduce the "actual facts" by themselves.

Seriously, if anyone really cares about the actual facts, go read up some Chinese official history text books.

San Guo Zhi might have been based on history, but it is still a book nontheless, hardly qualifying as history material.
Ez8
Tyro
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:00 pm

Re: SGYY reliabilty

Unread postby Ez8 » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:47 pm

Oh yes, I forgot to put this in.

Zhao Zilong wrote:I would like to know the credibility of Luo Guanzhong's SGYY.


Well, the best way to decide how historically accurate SGYY is would be to compare it to an official Chinese history textbook.

Like I've said, if anyone really cares about being historically accurate, refer to official textbooks, instead of VCDs/websites/games/books.

I, for one, don't really care how historically accurate SGYY is. I just enjoy it for what it is: a semi-fictional novel documentating a brief period in Chinese history.

Any inqueries into what are the actual facts are moot, in my humble opinion.

It's a bit like watching the Hollywood movie Pearl Harbour, and fussing and debating over its accuracy. Kind of pointless, isn't it?
Ez8
Tyro
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:00 pm

Unread postby TheGreatNads » Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:46 pm

Ez8 wrote:Not wishing to be rude or anything, but how reliable are most of the "actual facts" posted by people on this thread?

Please don't tell me that they think they know what are the "actual facts" just because they watched some VCDs/played some games/read some websites.

It seems to me that a lot of people just happen to come across some bits of information from some questionable sources, thinks that it makes them knowledgeable, and proceed deduce the "actual facts" by themselves.


People like Jiwuan, Great Deer, DarkAnthem, WilliamL, Mengdez New Book, Han Xin, Pang Shiyuan, and others do know what they're talking about.

Ez8 wrote:Seriously, if anyone really cares about the actual facts, go read up some Chinese official history text books.


SGZ is official.

Ez8 wrote:San Guo Zhi might have been based on history, but it is still a book nontheless, hardly qualifying as history material.


Bull, San Guo Zhi is one of the official history books.
Last edited by TheGreatNads on Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheGreatNads
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:02 am
Location: nowhere new, ever

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved

 
cron