Differences between Three Kingdoms novel and history…

Best threads of the SGYYS, for your viewing pleasure.

Unread postby Han Xin » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:47 am

William wrote:Other commander also send their men in winter to fought in war...eg. Battle of ChiBi, invading of JingZhou, attacking of RuXu, etc...LOL
WOW...you make Wei Yan like the God of War...hehee...even Zhou Yu took 1 year to capture JiangLing...Wei Yan can take ChenCang + ChangAn in no time..LOL

LOL... It was Cao Cao's idea to attack ChiBi during winter, not Zhou Yu. JiangLing was one hell of a fortress and Cao Cao keep sending re-enforcement down every so often, and beside, the climate at Jingzhou is warmer than ChenCang and ChangAn.

Anyhow, I had this to ask you. Did the three Zhang brothers (the Yellow turban leaders) have titles like Lord of Heaven, Earth, and Human like it was mention in SGYY? I tried to find some info on it, but I couldn't. May be it in Hou Han Shu?

Here another of my lot.
  1. Shamoke is a fictional character. I couldn't find his name at all in many of Shu's officers bio that involve in YiLing.
  2. Jiang Gan never visit Zhou Yu during the battle of ChiBi.
  3. There are some confusion over the seal, but from Sun Ce's bio he never trade in the seal to borrow Yuan Shu's troops.
  4. Cao Cao committed the Xu Zhou massacre during his withdraw from Xu Zhou, not during the start of the invasion.
  5. Zhuge Liang never captured Zhang Ren.
  6. It wasn't Zhuge Liang that was the advisor during HanZhong campaign, it was Fa Zheng.
  7. There were only 5 northern campaigns by Generalissimo Zhuge Liang, the campaign where he trapped Sima Yi and his sons at HuLu pass was frictional.
  8. Although Zhou Yu and Han Ze both advice Sun Quan to keep Liu Bei hostage during the time Liu Bei come to Wu, nothing was attempts and Liu Bei left Wu without any incident.
  9. Generalissimo Zhuge Liang never defeated five army-forces while sitting in his house. There were never any invasion attempts by Wei or Wu onto Shu until after Generalissimo Zhuge's third northern campaign.
  10. Sun Quan only send Zhuge Jin to dissuade Liu Bei from attacking Wu months before the invasion of YiLing. There were never any offer to give back anything by Sun Quan. There were no envoyed send by Wu after Liu Bei march. However, Wu did send someone after Liu Bei retreat to BaiDi city.
Han Xin's past-time - 沉湎於酒, 淫於聲色, 左手擁華姬,右手抱越女:lol:
User avatar
Han Xin
Shu Emperor
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:20 am
Location: In the middle between Love and Lust. ^_^

Unread postby Mega Zarak » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:50 am

Han Xin wrote:Here another of my lot.
[list=1][*]Shamoke is a fictional character. I couldn't find his name at all in many of Shu's officers bio that involve in YiLing.

Shamoke's name was mentioned in Lu Xun's SGZ biography.
User avatar
Mega Zarak
Grand Tutor of Wei
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 2:38 am
Location: North of the River

Unread postby Starscream » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:51 am

Han Xin wrote:Shamoke is a fictional character. I couldn't find his name at all in many of Shu's officers bio that involve in YiLing.

You can find Shamo Ke's name in Lu Xun's bios, when he was killed during Liu Bei's retreat.

There are some confusion over the seal, but from Sun Ce's bio he never trade in the seal to borrow Yuan Shu's troops.

Try reading the annotations at Sun Jian's bios regarding the seal, I'd love to hear your interpretations, because I'm awfully confused about the whereabouts of the seal also. :wink:
”太慢了。“
User avatar
Starscream
Decepticon Air Commander
 
Posts: 2148
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:36 am
Location: 真仙殿

Unread postby William » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:06 am

Han Xin wrote:LOL... It was Cao Cao's idea to attack ChiBi during winter, not Zhou Yu. JiangLing was one hell of a fortress and Cao Cao keep sending re-enforcement down every so often, and beside, the climate at Jingzhou is warmer than ChenCang and ChangAn.

What I mean were Cao Cao - Battle of ChiBi, Sun Quan - attacking of RuXu and Lu Meng - invading of JingZhou. All happen in winter, I did not put any blame on Zhou Yu...LOL
ChangAn was another great fortress, will Wei just watch Wei Yan attack ChangAn and not sending any reinforcement?

Han Xin wrote:Anyhow, I had this to ask you. Did the three Zhang brothers (the Yellow turban leaders) have titles like Lord of Heaven, Earth, and Human like it was mention in SGYY? I tried to find some info on it, but I couldn't. May be it in Hou Han Shu?

Yes, Hou Han Shu in the bio of HuangFu Song, it did mention about those titles.
Last edited by William on Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May The Fore Be With Me...
User avatar
William
Assistant
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:15 am
Location: Harbour

Unread postby DarkAnthem » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:53 pm

Here's a few more..

1. Guan Yu didn’t go through five passes and kill six generals when he left Cao Cao, no intervention was recorded in his return to Liu Bei. Guan Yu didn’t use the flood to defeat Yu Jin’s armies, the flood happened by accident.

2. Xu Shu helping Liu Bei defeating Cao Ren and Li Dian at Xin Ye didn’t happen. Liu Bei’s SGZ bio only mentions Xiahou Dun and Yu Jin invading Xin Ye and defeated by Liu Bei, no Cao Ren envasion mentioned. Only mention of Cao Ren attacking Liu Bei was during the battle of Guan Du, Yuan Shao sent Liu Bei to raid Yin Jiang, and Cao Ren defeated Liu Bei and quelled the rebellious prefectures before returning.

3. Guan Yu letting Cao Cao go at Hua Rong pass never happened.

4. In the novel Lu Meng pretended to be sick to trick Guan Yu, in history he really was sick.

5. In the novel, right after Liu Bei’s death, Shu was invaded from five routes organized by Sima Yi (Cao Zhen, Meng Da, Xijiang, Nanman, and Wu) and all stopped by Kong Ming, in history that never happened. Wei didn’t even pay attention to Shu until Kong Ming started his campaigns.

6. In Kong Ming’s northern campaigns, the whole episode of Kong Ming using the Wooden Oxs to trick Wei forces was made up. He only used those to transport supplies.

7. In the novel Jiang Wei committed suicide after Shu’s fall. In history he was killed by Wei soldiers after him and Zhong Hui’s rebellion failed, as their acts weren’t supported by their own soldiers.
DarkAnthem
Master
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:05 pm

Unread postby Shadowlink » Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:45 pm

Liu, Guan and Zhang were not sworn brother; why? what happen how do u know all this send me the website if they is one.
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Unread postby rcsha » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:37 pm

Zhugeliang wrote:Liu, Guan and Zhang were not sworn brother; why? what happen how do u know all this send me the website if they is one.


In their San Guo Zhi bios, they are not recorded as being brothers. However it is recorded that Liu Bei treated them as brothers.
Dickjutsu.com
The Bruce Lee of Dickery.
User avatar
rcsha
Ao Kaio Nankou
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:02 am
Location: http://www.dickjutsu.com

Unread postby Asellas » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:46 pm

rcsha wrote:Well here's a few for you:
1. Guan Yu didn't defeat Hua Xiong at the Fan Shui Guan, Sun Jian did.
2. Guan Yu's little gofer Zhou Cang isn't real.
3. Hua Xin (I belive was his name) was historically a very nice and quiet man. However in the novel he was very rude and mean.
4. In hte novel Guan Yu adtops Guan Dong's son, Guan Ping as his own. However, historically it's never mentioned the the adoption took place.
5. There is no historical record of Cao Cao slaughtering Xuzhou's citizens on the march towards Tao Qian's castle.

Heh, the first off the top of my head, lol.


Your right.Zhou Cang did not exist like i do not exist :wink: .I got that on his bio on dynasty warriors 3.And it says on Hua Xiong's bio,Sun Jian did kill him and not Guan Yu.The other points i'm not so sure about but it depends where you got them from. :?Fa Zheng was successful because if he were alive Yi LIng would never have fallen.
"Winter is coming".
"I like hurting people...it's what I do best because I am heartless".
"Love is for poets, romance is for playwrights, and sex is for procreation - I desire none of them"
User avatar
Asellas
Lord of Winterfell
 
Posts: 4043
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Winterfell

Unread postby rcsha » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:08 pm

Heh, well Guan Ping did exist. It's just that Guan Yu didn't adopt him...he was relaly Guan Yu's first son, if I remember correctly.
Dickjutsu.com
The Bruce Lee of Dickery.
User avatar
rcsha
Ao Kaio Nankou
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:02 am
Location: http://www.dickjutsu.com

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:17 am

An important one is being missed.
-Zhang Liao died of illness. He was not shot in the crotch by an arrow.

I don't have much else on the top of my head that hasn't been said:
-Zhang He warned Sima Yi of an ambush but was commanded by Sima Yi to pursue the enemy when he was killed, not warned by Sima Yi but went anyway. (. . .In case you didn't know. I hope you did.)
-The Yellow Turban Rebellion was a lot more organized and a lot more effective than the book makes it seem; there was an underground society even going (or at least the goal) that was called something like the Five Bushels [of grain for every person] Society. . .
-There was no big evil black snake omen at the end of the Han dynasty. In fact, there were no big evil omens.
-I've heard somewhere that not only was Sun Shang Xiang a commanding wife who scared and ordered Liu Bei around, but that when Liu Bei died, she simply returned to Wu, and did not commit suicide; that LGZ changed it to represent the "virtuous woman".
-Lu Meng, also, died of illness. He was not posessed.
User avatar
CaTigeReptile
Langzhong
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:58 pm
Location: General who Stabs Evil People

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved