Talents of the three kingdoms

Best threads of the SGYYS, for your viewing pleasure.

Re: Talents of the three kingdoms

Unread postby Gan Ning 27 » Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:38 am

Shu:
Favourite general: Wei Yan
Least favourite general: Ma Chao
Greatest dueller: Zhang Fei
Most overrated general: Ma Chao
Most underrated general: Deng Zhi/Liao Hua/Wang Ping
Favourite strategist: Pang Tong
Least favourite strategist: Zhuge Liang
Greatest strategist: Pang Tong
Most overrated strategist: Zhuge Liang
Most underrated strategist: Fa Zheng
Overall greatest general of the kingdom Shu: Wei Yan/Zhang Fei

Wu:
Favourite general: Gan Ning
Least favourite general: Taishi Ci
Greatest dueller: Sun Jian/Sun Ce/Taishi Ci/Zhou Tai
Most overrated general: Taishi Ci
Most underrated general: Zhou Tai/Zhu Ran/Xu Sheng
Favourite strategist: Lu Xun
Least favourite strategist: Zhou Yu
Greatest strategist: Lu Xun
Most overrated strategist: Zhou Yu
Most underrated strategist: Lu Kang
Overall greatest general of the kingdom Wu: Gan Ning/Lu Xun/Lu Su

Wei:
Favourite general: Zhang Liao/Dian Wei/Deng Ai
Least favourite general: Yu Jin/Xiahou Yuan
Greatest dueller: Dian Wei/Xu Chu/Pang De
Most overrated general: Yu Jin
Most underrated general: Li Dian/Pang De/Xiahou Mao
Favourite strategist: Jia Xu
Least favourite strategist: Sima Yi
Greatest strategist: Jia Xu
Most overrated strategist: Sima Yi
Most underrated strategist: Xiahou Mao
Overall greatest general of Wei: Deng Ai/Zhang Liao

None three kingdoms:
Favourite general: Gao Shun
Least favourite general: Lu Bu
Greatest dueller: Lu Bu/Yan Liang/Wen Chou/Gao Shun
Most overrated general: Lu Bu
Most underrated general: Zhang Ren
Favourite strategist: Chen Gong
Least favourite strategist: Li Ru
Greatest strategist: ???
Most overrated strategist: ???
Most underrated strategist: ???
Overall greatest general of none three kingdoms: ???

Overall:
Favourite general: Gan Ning
Least favourite general: Ma Chao
Greatest dueller: Zhang Fei/Dian Wei
Most overrated general: Lu Bu/Ma Chao
Most underrated general: Deng Zhi/Zhou Tai
Favourite strategist: Lu Xun
Least favourite strategist: Zhuge Liang
Greatest strategist: Jia Xu
Most overrated strategist: Zhuge Liang
Most underrated strategist: Xiahou Mao
Overall greatest general of the three kingdoms era: Deng Ai/Lu Xun/Zhang Liao/Wei Yan/Lu Su/Gan Ning

For those who say Gan Ning was overrated, prove it.
Guess who's back? Back again?
Mongo's back. Back again.
Gan Ning 27
Student
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:45 pm
Location: Don't judge me!

Unread postby Ma Chao fan » Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:33 am

Damn,no love for Ma Chao on this board. :lol:

One question,is it true the Qiangs feared him?I mean,if that alone is true,he can't be that overrated.

All kingdoms:
Favourite general: Ma Chao
Least favourite general: Cao Cao(does he count?)
Greatest dueller: Zhang Fei
Most overrated general: Lu Bu
Most underrated general: Zhang Fei(novel-wise anyway)
Favourite strategist: Guo Jia/Pang Tong
Least favourite strategist: Zhuge Liang
Greatest strategist: Jia Xu/Lu Kang
Most overrated strategist: Zhuge Liang
Most underrated strategist: Pang Tong
Overall greatest general of the three kingdoms era: Zhang Liao/Gan Ning
Ma Chao fan
Apprentice
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Philadelphia,PA

Unread postby DarkAnthem » Sun Feb 09, 2003 5:50 pm

Ma Chao fan wrote:Damn,no love for Ma Chao on this board. :lol:

One question,is it true the Qiangs feared him?I mean,if that alone is true,he can't be that overrated.


The Qiangs feared him mostly because of his family heritage, not because of Ma Chao himself.
DarkAnthem
Master
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:05 pm

Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:09 pm

All kingdoms:
Favourite general: Zhao Yun because he kills a lot for soldiers.
Least favourite general: Dong Zhou he just want to be king.
Greatest dueller: Zhang Fei
Most overrated general: Lu Bu
Most underrated general: Zhang Fei(novel-wise anyway)
Favourite strategist: Zhugeliang/Pang Tong
Least favourite strategist:Zhou Yu
Greatest strategist: Pang Tong/Zhugeliang
Most overrated strategist: Zhuge Liang
Most underrated strategist: Pang Tong
Overall greatest general of the three kingdoms era: Zhao Yun/Lu Bu
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Unread postby Supreme Kai » Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:48 pm

Damn,no love for Ma Chao on this board.

One question,is it true the Qiangs feared him?I mean,if that alone is true,he can't be that overrated.


I would have used the name MaChao had somebody not taken it. Ma Chao is awesome.
Supreme Kai
Apprentice
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:24 pm

Unread postby Sun jian » Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:52 pm

Wang Zijun wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: Try reading SGZ.
Guan Yu was one of the most arrogant generals in the three kingdoms era. Many of his achievements never occurred, such as he never slew Hua Xiong, Sun Jian did. He killed Yan Liang before he had chance to defend himself, he never killed Wen Chou, he never slew those 6 gate guards, the list goes on and on.
Zhuge Liang was perhaps the most grossly overrated person in the whole of the three kingdoms era. He literally accomplished next to nothing in Shu, he never 'called the winds' unless you believe in magic. Going by SGZ, he had pretty much nothing to do with Chi Bi. His northern campaigns were all disasters; in fact, I'd like you to point out one of his most significant achievements that happened in true history.
Lu Bu is extremely overrated. He never duelled Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, nor did he duel all of Cao's generals at the same time. He didn't have much success to his name, and just like Guan Yu was extremely arrogant. That's why he was overrated and why I don't like him.
I was trying to be 'different' was I? I was merely saying the truth, and I'm sure many people on this board agree with me.


i agree with about all three of those people.
favorite general: Sun Jian
favorite strategist: Zhou Yu
best Dueler: Sun Jian
best leader: Sun Quan
most overrated general: Guan Yu & Lu Bu
most overrated strategist: Zhuge Liang
i favor Wu, as you can see, and i won't state opinions on characters i know nothing about. 8-)
User avatar
Sun jian
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:07 pm

Unread postby Sam » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:27 pm

I'm making this thread sticky in order to avoid the usual 'favourite general' or 'favourite strategist' threads from occurring again.
Otherwise known as Wang Ping (Zijun)
Sam
Sweeper of Invaders
 
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:38 pm
Location: Nanjing

Unread postby Hidoshi » Tue Feb 25, 2003 8:55 am

Well I'm not one to create a list, but I suppose I'd have to assemble something like the following. Please note that the translation will be Wade-Giles with the pinyin in brackets. I'm not a fan of pinyin romanisation, never have been, but I write it down for the sake of common recogniition:

Favoured General: Kuan Yu'chang (Guan Yu)
Favoured Leader: Liu Pei (Liu Bei)
Favoured Strategist: Chou Yü (Zhao Yu)
Favoured Kingdom: Shu

In terms of disfavourment, I'd have to say the least likable people in my eyes are T'sao T'sao (Cao Cao) and Ssuma I (Sima Yi). I think the reasons should be plainly obvious, but in as plain terms as I can manage; I dislike people of few ethics and even less honesty.

I also hold in high regard Generals Chang Fei (Zhang Fei) and Chou Yun (Zhao Yun), not to mention the reknowned strategist Chuko Liang (Zhuge Liang) and to a lesser but not demaning extent, both Han T'ang (Han Dang) and Huang Chung (Huang Zhong).

On a further note, there are a great many verions of San Kuo Chih Yen-I out there, many of them inaccurate or overtly cynical of events. Moreover, one cannot say "It did not occur this way" with any accuracy because although the novel is a fiction on historical events. Historical events from that time are also quite conflicting, and therefore you cannot say "Lu Pu" did so and so or didn't as a definite. You, by your opinion based on the versions you have read, may indeed believe that, but that does not make it the absolute reality of the situation.

One other thing I would like to note: Arrogance would mean pride not worthy of its owner, or an owner not worthy of his pride. However, Lord Kwan Yu'chang was a hero and had many deeds to his name, therefore whatever pride he carried was richly deserved. Mind you, many authors embellish upon this work, so it may be the author's fault, not the original individual's as to the mood.

I also don't accept many so-called 'historical' compilations of San Kuo Chi (The historical name of the time, as opposed to the novel's name "San Kuo Chih Yen-I"). Chinese historians inside the Sino government today are often politically pressured to change certain 'details', and scholars over here are often not privy to proper information because of that. An instance I remember from not too long ago was a historian who complained that the Chinese government kept omitting that the strategist Chuko Liang was the student of a reknowned Taoist master of the time, and a Taoist himself due to the religious nature of Taoism. It's hardly a secret that the Chinese government since the introduction of Communism has been opposed to religion, and while they accept 'official' religions, they neither support the, nor do they allow any religious freedom to speak of.

Religion has been highly controlled in Communist China, as has historical data. Needless to say, it's been one of the largest dents of innacuracy surrounding epics like San Kuo Chih Yen-I and Journey to the West (the Chinese name escapes me at the moment).

To my knowledge, the most accurate version of San Kuo Chih Yen-I that I've read or heard of is by C.H. Brewitt-Taylor and published by Tuttle. It uses the Wade-Giles system and is an almost direct translation, rather than an abridged, localised copy. While ordinarily I abhor direct translations, it may be in the best interest of a historian to research the most accurate of copies. Besides that, I far prefer the Wade-Giles system of translation, as I've repeatedly stated. Moss Robert also did a particularly good translation, despite it being in pinyin, but it has certain rearrangements now and again, as well as changes to details that devalue its accuracy. What is worthwhile about Moss Robert's translation is that it's loaded with maps and footnotes about specific events and places.
User avatar
Hidoshi
Assistant
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 8:13 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:46 pm

Shu-

Pang Tong (Could have worked with Zhuge)
Ma Chao died at 49.

Wei-

Everybody forgot Guo jia?

Wu-
Sun Ce
Zhou Yu to young.
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Unread postby mike » Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:17 am

Shu:
Favourite general: Huang Zhong
Least Favourite general: Zhao Yun
Greatest Dueller: Guan Yu
Most overrated general: Zhao Yun
Most Underrated general: Ma Dai
Favourite Strategist: Ma Liang
Least Favourite Strategist: Ma Su
Greatest Strategist: Ma Liang
Most Overrated Strategist: Zhuge Liang
Most underrated Strategist: Fa Zheng
Overall greatest general in all of Shu: Huang Zhong/ Ma Dai


Wu:
Favourite General: Lu Meng
Least Favourite General: Lu Xun
Greatest dueller: Taishi Ci/ Cheng Pu
Most overrated general: Gan Ning
Most underrated general: Dong Xi/ ling Tong
Favourite Strategist: Zhuge jin
Least favourite Strategist: Lu Xun
Greatest Strategist: Zhuge Jin
Most overrated strategist: Lu Xun
Most underrated strategist: Zhuge Jin
Overall greatest general of the Wu Kingdom:Cheng Pu/Han Dang/Taishi Ci

Wei:
Favourite general:Xiahou Yuan/ Xiahou Dun
Least favourite general: Dian Wei
Greatest Dueller: Xu Chu/ Dian Wei
Most overrated general: Cao Hong
Most Underrated general: Zhu Ling/ Zhang Xiu
Favourite strategist: Yang Xiu
Least favourite strategist: Man Chong
Greatest strategist: Yang Xiu
Most overrated strategist: Jia Xu
Most underrated strategist: Cheng Yu
Overall greatest general of Wei: Coa Ren/ Xia. Yuan/ Xia. Dun

Others:

Favourite General: Wen Chou
Least favourite General: Yan Liang
Greatest dueller: Lu Bu
Most overrated general: Lu Bu
Most Underrated general: Huang Zu
Favourite strategist: Kuai Yue
Least favourite strategist: Li Ru
Greatest Strategist: Yan Pu
Most Overrated strategist: Chen Gong
Most Underrated strategist: Kuai Yue
Overall greatest general of Others: Wen Chou/ Huang Zu

Overall:
Favourite General: Huang Zhong
Least favourite General: Dian Wei
Greatest Dueller: Guan Yu/ Xu Chu
Most Overrated General: Gan Ning
Most underrated general: Ma Dai/ Huang Zu
Favourite Strategist: Ma Liang
Greatest Strategist: Zhuge Jin
Most Overrated Strategist: Jia Xu/ Zhuge Liang
Most Underrated strategist: Kuai Yue
Overall greatest general of the three kingdoms era: Huang Zhong/ Huang Zu/Xia. Dun/ Xia. Yuan/ Taishi Ci

Gan Ning was overrated because he has all these tattoos (too look "bad to the bone" or something to that degree) and he has very boring moves and his special is really bad.
Tell it like it is Sun jian, tell it like it is (in other words I agree immensly) :lol:
mike
 

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved