Kongming-Sleeping Dragon? (A discussion on names)

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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:47 am

Lu Xun changed his name because of acheiving wealth.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:06 am

Really?Could you post a source if you have one.

That's really weird though.Why would wealth necessitate a name change?
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:29 am

This was at this very site:
http://kongming.net/novel/styles/

An officer may also change his name after reaching a certain point in the nobility (e.g. Lu Xun changing his name to Lu Yi). A general’s name may also be changed after their death to honor their deeds in life.
Lu Xun- "After much observation of how Liu Bei had been leading troops in his career, I see that he had more failures than success; hence, he is not much of a threat."
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Unread postby Jon » Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:19 am

It could have just been one of those pride things. You know how sometimes people decide they like one name more than the one they were born with, so they tell everyone to call them that from that day on. Boyan didn't come off to me as one of that kind of people though, so I'm not saying this is actually the reason.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:56 am

I actually do not approve of the explanation of names and styles at KMA, for the record.

There are various reasons why people changed their names--to avoid the taboo of the name of a superior (emperor, boss, someone else's ancestor), to fulfill a dream (such as Cheng Yu), or something like that. In extreme cases, a vengeful ruler would order the name of an offending minister be changed to something bad, but it's really rare.

Some people have proposed that Lu Xun's name was changed because Sun Quan was angry at him. The character for that Xun means "humble, inferior", which doesn't match his style, "Boyan" ("bo" means "eldest", and "yan" means "speech"--his original name, "Yi", means "discuss"). This seems to support the point that Sun Quan tried to demean him by forcing this name change on him.

However, I highly doubt this was the case. Lu Kang and Sun Quan finally sorted stuff out between them, and Sun Quan expressed great regret about what he did to Lu Xun. He ordered all his reproaching correspendces burnt, as an effort to erase the bad past. Lu Kang had Sun Quan rehabilitate his father's honour. It would be unthinkable that Sun Quan did all that but refused to change Lu Xun's name back.

There is actually a little bit of evidence that Lu Xun changed his name before Yiling. In Lu Xun's bio, Lu Meng is directly quoted to recommend "Lu Xun" to Sun Quan, and Liu Bei has a line saying "Now I am defeated by Lu Xun...". Chen Shou does a pretty good job keeping names in direct quotes the way they would have been said at the time--for example, though Sima Yi's given name (Yi) is taboo during the Jin, Chen Shou kept it in Zhuge Liang's speeches. If Chen Shou was being consistent, then Lu Xun's name (Xun) must have been in use by the time of Yiling.

Of course, stronger evidence for this dating of the name change should come from official petitions or writings, rather than direct speech--it's not clear how much of the conversations recorded did happen in history (who was around to write them down??).
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Unread postby Hero of Chaos » Sat May 14, 2005 3:11 am

Cao Cao's style was Mengde what does that mean?
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat May 14, 2005 3:54 am

Hero of Chaos wrote:Cao Cao's style was Mengde what does that mean?


Here, I have a little guide on style names.

Basically, "Meng" signifies that he was the eldest son, and "de" means virtue.
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Bright Confucian

Unread postby Xian Xu » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:30 pm

Han Xin wrote:From my poor understanding of Chinese, Kong (孔) mean a hole or an opening, another dictionary I had said that another meaning for the word Kong is very much, many, great amount, abundance. Ming (明) in chinese mean bright. In the context of Zhuge Liang's name, I don't think Kong actually mean a hole, so my my guess is that his name mean Zhuge the Very Bright (Talking about a person with a massive ego :lol:


Stefanos wrote:Kongming - Big(King like king kong) Intelligence - Zhuge Liang


Stedfel wrote:I am not 100% sure about this but I read that Kongming means confucian wisdom.


This reply regards some posts a few pages back, so sorry if this is old news. In any case, Stedfel is right; it would be something to the effect of Bright Confucian.

Kong (孔) was Confucius's surname, and the Kong from Kongming was derived from that. For those of you who play RTK9, Confucius is Kong Qiu (hidden character). :D

Most of the time, the style name is synonymous with the given name. In this case, Ming (明), which means bright, is synonymous with Liang (from Zhuge Liang), which also means bright.

This is why it would be something like, Bright Confucian.
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