Lu Kang, Visionary General, or Traitor to his Kingdom?

Best threads of the SGYYS, for your viewing pleasure.

Lu Kang

Visionary General
54
75%
Traitor to his Kingdom
8
11%
Don't Know/Don't Care
10
14%
 
Total votes : 72

Unread postby DarkAnthem » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:21 pm

Cao Pie wrote:In the grand Scheme of things 15 years isn't that long, especially when the kingdom had occupied it for 20 some odd years, you mean to tell me that their were no patriotic Shuinites left in Shu? I'll do something you would, "Prove it."


I'm sure there were some patriotic Shuinites left, but not enough to make a difference. And I wouldn't think there's any reason the people would rebel against Jin unless they were very discontent with the rule, but the rule under Jin probably wasn't much worst, or even better than Liu Shan's rule, so I don't think if Wu envaded people within Shu will automatically stand up against Jin. Plus the people wouldn't really care who is in charge, as long as they have peace.
DarkAnthem
Master
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:05 pm

Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:39 am

Jimayo Oyamitch wrote:That makes no logical sense either. A suicide attack that destroys the wu army certainly is of no help to "the autonomous state of wu". Lu Kang realized this, and hence sent a memorial to the emperor explaining it. Sun Hao being a big dumb***, fired him.


Who said anything about a suicide attack? And if he wasn't confident that he could keep the army from being destroyed, then he shouldn't have been a general in the first place. It's an awfully large leap you're taking by saying that "If Lu Kang attacks, the Wu army would be destroyed". I know you didn't say that exactly, but that's what you're getting at.

Also, from you're quote up there I wouldn't say Sun Hao is a big dumbass for firing him. What's the point of having a General in charge if he thinks he has absolutely no chance at victory? If he has no confidence, think of how that would affect the morale of the troops.
"Armed and dangerous, ain't too many can hang wit us
straight up weed no angel dust, label us Notorious..."--Biggie
User avatar
Iznoach, Legendary Dragon
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:28 am
Location: French Landing, WI

Unread postby Jimayo » Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:45 am

Iznoach wrote:Who said anything about a suicide attack? And if he wasn't confident that he could keep the army from being destroyed, then he shouldn't have been a general in the first place. It's an awfully large leap you're taking by saying that "If Lu Kang attacks, the Wu army would be destroyed". I know you didn't say that exactly, but that's what you're getting at.

Also, from you're quote up there I wouldn't say Sun Hao is a big dumbass for firing him. What's the point of having a General in charge if he thinks he has absolutely no chance at victory? If he has no confidence, think of how that would affect the morale of the troops.


Know yourself, and know your enemy, and you can fight 100 battles without defeat.

Lu Kang was good, but so was Yang Hu, and Yang Hu had a far larger army. If Lu Xun couldn't defeat Zhang Liao despite outnumbering him, how could Lu Kang defeat Yang Hu when he is outnumbered? Therefore suicide attack.
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
Jimayo
Lord of the Thirteen Hells
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:38 am
Location: Nothingness. And that's where I'll be returning in oh, about 15 minutes.

Unread postby Cao Pie » Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:19 pm

Jimayo Oyamitch wrote:
Lu Kang was good, but so was Yang Hu, and Yang Hu had a far larger army. If Lu Xun couldn't defeat Zhang Liao despite outnumbering him, how could Lu Kang defeat Yang Hu when he is outnumbered? Therefore suicide attack.


Ha ha

Zhang Liao didn't fight Lu Xun, and besides that being outnumbered doesn't mean very much Cao Ren fought off Zhou Yu and Zhou Yu more troops. Cao Cao beat Yuan Shao at Guan Du and Shao had a much higher numerical advantage. The SUn Quan Liu Vei alliance fought off Cao Cao and Cao had an numerical advantage. Zhang Liao fought off Sun Quan's He Fei attacks and ussually Zhang was outnumbered.

but oh this just means that it's easier to defend with fewer troops rihgt? Than an example of offense, Liu Bei defeated Liu Zhang and Liu Zhang had more troops.
Cao Pie
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 3:37 am

Unread postby Jimayo » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:13 pm

Cao Pie wrote:Ha ha

Zhang Liao didn't fight Lu Xun, and besides that being outnumbered doesn't mean very much Cao Ren fought off Zhou Yu and Zhou Yu more troops. Cao Cao beat Yuan Shao at Guan Du and Shao had a much higher numerical advantage. The SUn Quan Liu Vei alliance fought off Cao Cao and Cao had an numerical advantage. Zhang Liao fought off Sun Quan's He Fei attacks and ussually Zhang was outnumbered.

but oh this just means that it's easier to defend with fewer troops rihgt? Than an example of offense, Liu Bei defeated Liu Zhang and Liu Zhang had more troops.


All these examples are where a skilled opponent defeated an unskilled one while being outnumbered. Lu Kang and Yang Hu were both highly skilled.
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
Jimayo
Lord of the Thirteen Hells
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:38 am
Location: Nothingness. And that's where I'll be returning in oh, about 15 minutes.

Unread postby Cao Pie » Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:15 am

Jimayo Oyamitch wrote:All these examples are where a skilled opponent defeated an unskilled one while being outnumbered. Lu Kang and Yang Hu were both highly skilled.


So Zhou Yu is an unskilled oponent?

Cao Cao is an unskilled opponent?

Liu Xan (I think that's Liu Zhang's son) Zhang Ren, Yan Yan, and Wu Yi were unskilled opponents?

The last one is one I suspect you'd say yes to so I'll cut that down now, those men held off Liu Bei's army for about a year so they are not unskilled.
Cao Pie
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 3:37 am

Unread postby Jimayo » Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:37 am

Cao Pie wrote:
Jimayo Oyamitch wrote:
Cao Pie wrote:All these examples are where a skilled opponent defeated an unskilled one while being outnumbered. Lu Kang and Yang Hu were both highly skilled.


So Zhou Yu is an unskilled oponent?

Cao Cao is an unskilled opponent?

Liu Xan (I think that's Liu Zhang's son) Zhang Ren, Yan Yan, and Wu Yi were unskilled opponents?

The last one is one I suspect you'd say yes to so I'll cut that down now, those men held off Liu Bei's army for about a year so they are not unskilled.


Zhou Yu won. While outnumbering his opponent.

Cao Cao is the skilled one who was outnumbered.

Liu Xun, Zhang Ren, Yan Yan, and Wu Yi are hardly a match for Zhang Fei, Fa Zheng, Huang Zhong, Wei Yan, Pang Tong, Zhuge Liang, and Liu Bei.
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
Jimayo
Lord of the Thirteen Hells
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:38 am
Location: Nothingness. And that's where I'll be returning in oh, about 15 minutes.

Unread postby Cao Pie » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:26 am

Jimayo Oyamitch wrote:
Zhou Yu won. While outnumbering his opponent.

Cao Cao is the skilled one who was outnumbered.

Liu Xun, Zhang Ren, Yan Yan, and Wu Yi are hardly a match for Zhang Fei, Fa Zheng, Huang Zhong, Wei Yan, Pang Tong, Zhuge Liang, and Liu Bei.



I was referring to Zhou Yu beating Cao Cao,

and they were no match? Is that why they held them off for a year, even after Bei betrayed Liu Zhang and took the Riverlands by surprise?
Cao Pie
Apprentice
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 3:37 am

Unread postby Jimayo » Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:35 am

Cao Pie wrote:I was referring to Zhou Yu beating Cao Cao,

and they were no match? Is that why they held them off for a year, even after Bei betrayed Liu Zhang and took the Riverlands by surprise?


When it comes to naval affairs, yes, Zhou Yu is a much more skilled opponent than Cao Cao.

Your underestimating sieges there pal. Liu Bei had to go through at least one of those(I'd imagine more) in order to conquer Yizhou(the riverlands would be Jing Zhou). Sieges take time(for everyone, including Zhou Yu and Cao Cao, just two that spring to mind).
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
Jimayo
Lord of the Thirteen Hells
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:38 am
Location: Nothingness. And that's where I'll be returning in oh, about 15 minutes.

Unread postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:31 pm

You also have to remember that besides Lu Kang Wu only has one good general that is still alive Ding Feng and he is really old at the time. Now Jin has Yang Hu plus Du Yu and some other skilled generals whose names dont come to mind. I think Lu Kang did the right thing by not attacking Jin. If he did start to attack Jin i think we would just see another Jiang Wei.
User avatar
MarvelousLingTong!!!!!!
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1344
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:00 am
Location: Missouri

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved