Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Best threads of the SGYYS, for your viewing pleasure.

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:37 am

Striga wrote:
Shen Ai wrote:Huang Hao was a pretty good traitor, but calling him that would be a little extreme as he didn't actually leave Shu and joined someone else.
Ma Chao was a traitor to everything his father worked towards. Does that count?
Dong Zhuo is the "Imperial traitor" as Cao Cao labelled him in the series.


Pretty good traitor? Is that supposed to be an oxymoron? :lol:
I don't think Dong Zhuo was actually trying to betray the empire, but rather change it for the better, and benefit himself, although he got a bit too greedy.

You can betray someone well. Like Lu Meng did with Shu. That was some damn good betrayal there. I agree with the Dong Zhuo bit though. But I think he always had his own interests first.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
Shen Ai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: That Place You've Been Dreaming Of

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Striga » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:40 pm

At first, he deposed the original heir to the throne to put in Xian, since he believed that Xian was better suited, and less of a coward. After that, I can't think of much that wasn't mostly for himself. However, after he died, the Emperor went into a worse position with all the fleeing from Dong's lieutenants.
"Immense power is fun! You should try it sometime." -Syndra (favourite quote XD)
User avatar
Striga
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:23 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Vitruvius » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:33 pm

Remember this Gou An guy? Although its made up in the novel but his traitorous act cost Zhuge Liang the failure of one northern expedition.

But I think the biggest traitorous act was by Zhang Song and Fa Zheng, sold the entire Yi Province to Liu Bei..
Vitruvius
Student
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Striga » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:39 am

He is real, and the only difference is he didn't flee to Wei, he surrendered when Jiang Wei had him guard a fort and Chen Tai took it from him.
"Immense power is fun! You should try it sometime." -Syndra (favourite quote XD)
User avatar
Striga
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:23 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Aygor » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Fu Shiren and Mi Fang win for me.
And Meng Da gets a "honourable" mention too.
分久必合,合久必分
Ἀτύφως μὲν λαβεῖν, εὐλύτως δὲ ἀφεῖναι
User avatar
Aygor
Langzhong
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:55 pm

In fairness, those two betrayed once and Mi Fang could argue extenuating circumstances. It seems a tad harsh they get above, for example, Meng Da with a record of jumping (though some under difficult circumstances).
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 15640
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Aygor » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:59 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:In fairness, those two betrayed once and Mi Fang could argue extenuating circumstances. It seems a tad harsh they get above, for example, Meng Da with a record of jumping (though some under difficult circumstances).

I'll have to be honest and admit i am extremely biased against Mi Fang and Shi Ren :wink:

I'd say Lu Bu is the most obvious answer, and Cao Cao is the most obvious alternative.
I think Liu Bei too is a common alternative; probably more due to the striking rotk/history difference rather than due to him actually being worse than his warlord peers.
Gongsun Yuan seems an interesting pick. Maybe not the biggest, but probably the worst at that.
分久必合,合久必分
Ἀτύφως μὲν λαβεῖν, εὐλύτως δὲ ἀφεῖναι
User avatar
Aygor
Langzhong
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Qu Hui » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:57 am

Having done some research for another topic, I'd have to say that Ma Teng is the worst. Not because of one major incident, but because of the sheer number of times he betrayed someone. He betrayed the Han, Li Jue, Cao Cao, Yuan Shao and Han Sui in that order, and he betrayed Li Jue and Cao Cao twice each.
My avatar is Roy from Fire Emblem: Binding Blade, as he appears in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Quote of the "Day": "The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." -Neil Gaiman
User avatar
Qu Hui
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1797
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:34 pm
Location: #SoSZ, 24/7

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Jordan » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:59 pm

That's an interesting perspective. Would you mind elaborating on when and how he betrayed those figures? I recall him being mostly loyal to Cao Cao for instance. I don't remember incidents of him fighting directly against Cao Cao, though perhaps my memory is shaky. I do agree that he was definitely a traitorous figure though given his switching sides in the Liang Rebellion and fighting with Han Sui.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Re: Biggest Traitor in the Three Kingdoms Era?

Unread postby Tokugawa Liang » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:40 pm

For Shu, I'd say Mi Fang and Wei Yan
For Wei Meng Da and Wu the Zhang that wanted to surrender to Wei before Chi Bi (I don't remember his name right now)
Lu Bu is on top of the list of course, and Li Jue!
English is not my mother tongue. I hope the comprehension isn't too hard.

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
Tokugawa Liang
Assistant
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:28 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved