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Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:17 am
by Xu Yuan
Yuan Shao, to my limited understanding, seemed to be decently well liked by his people. Of course this is just surmising. Was Yuan Shao a good leader to his people, (I'm reminded of the foreign tribes doing all they can to support the Yuans before they're destroyed. To inspire such fierce loyalty from them, would not be an easy task) or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?

Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:44 pm
by Shen Ai
Xu Yuan wrote:Yuan Shao, to my limited understanding, seemed to be decently well liked by his people. Of course this is just surmising. Was Yuan Shao a good leader to his people, (I'm reminded of the foreign tribes doing all they can to support the Yuans before they're destroyed. To inspire such fierce loyalty from them, would not be an easy task) or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?


He cultivated a good core of talent and inspired loyalty from skilled men. He had his flaws but I think most adaptations of the man tend to do him a woeful injustice.

Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:52 am
by AxeLordGerardo
I think Yuan Shao is one of the most extent debate themes.

Many people say he was a fatuous lord, and indeed, he was.

He was too labeled by some as a decent commander, and yes, he was.

Some say he was unable to maintain the coallition united, and yes, the coallition ended disintegrated, but it can´t be blamed entirely on him. But we can´t either assure the other lords were in disposition to pursue Dong Zhuo with another warlord in command. I think the other lords were already satisfied with Dong Zhuo´s fleeing the capital and they hadn´t enough motivation to go ahead. I have my doubts about Yuan Shao being guilty in this. There was many internal strife in the coallition during the campaign. I think Cao Cao was trying to use Yuan Shao as the head to direct the campaign himself from the shadows, but his scheme finally ended in failure.
Yuan Shao demanded the Hereditary Seal when Sun Jian found it, but he did not returned to him even being at command. We will never know what would happen to Yuan Shao with the Seal in his hands, but the general sentiment between the different lords is that of rebellion inside themselves.

I always think Yuan Shao had the chance to do better himself, but the neccesary elements never aligned themselves to his favor. Yuan Shao stage is divided between his own deeds from his young career, a key figure for the destruction of the Eunuchs and a fairly decent adviser for He Jin, and the fame and resourcefulness of his officers and generals he managed to obtain after the North was conquered.

We have young Yuan Shao cleverness and ability by himself in one side and the potential of his army on the other hand.

Simply if we mix the best Yuan Shao version with the potential of the army he amassed by the time of Guan Du, his advance could be nearly unstoppable. It is such a pity what happened to him.

Re: Yuan Shao

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:46 pm
by Dong Zhou
I think nowadays, one doesn't hear criticism over Yuan Shao's handling of the Coalition. I think people realize it was an unruly mess he had little control of, I think perhaps we still don't fully comprehend how weak a hand he had