Yuan Shao

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Unread postby yoshitsune » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:31 am

:oops: I didn't mean nothing will change...

Anyways if Yuan Shao won at GuanDu, I don't think he would overthrow the Han empire as he is too "noble" and much less ambitious than CaoCao to do something like that as protraited in the novel. However we shouldn't speculate what would happen in the era since there is no "if" in history.
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The Yuan Shao of the Yuan Family

Unread postby Yuan Sho » Sun May 28, 2006 4:51 am

As I have read from the novel of the ROTK, Yuan Shao could've done more than ever had he listen to Tian Feng and Ju Shou. Shen Pei and Guo Tu may have possessed capable talents, but they fail in comparison to the talents of Ju Shou and Tian Feng.

Tian Feng had came up with a plan for a three year victory for Yuan Shao, but since he rushed into battle, Tian Feng's advice went unheard. Ju Shou, on the other hand, knew how well disciplined and well-trained Cao Cao's generals and soldiers were so he cautions Yuan Shao against reckless advances. In the end, Yuan Shao ignores another man whose advice was like seeing through the stars which held no secrets from him.

More or less, Ju Shou and Tian Feng were the best minds that Yuan Shao ever had and with their help, he would have been the northern ruler instead of Cao Cao.
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Re: The Yuan Shao of the Yuan Family

Unread postby Lady Mi » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:29 am

Yuan Sho wrote:As I have read from the novel of the ROTK, Yuan Shao could've done more than ever had he listen to Tian Feng and Ju Shou. Shen Pei and Guo Tu may have possessed capable talents, but they fail in comparison to the talents of Ju Shou and Tian Feng.

Tian Feng had came up with a plan for a three year victory for Yuan Shao, but since he rushed into battle, Tian Feng's advice went unheard. Ju Shou, on the other hand, knew how well disciplined and well-trained Cao Cao's generals and soldiers were so he cautions Yuan Shao against reckless advances. In the end, Yuan Shao ignores another man whose advice was like seeing through the stars which held no secrets from him.

More or less, Ju Shou and Tian Feng were the best minds that Yuan Shao ever had and with their help, he would have been the northern ruler instead of Cao Cao.




Truly a sign of an ego full of pride.
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Unread postby Lord Bio » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:48 am

Hello,

I think Yuan Shao's problem is not lack of advisors but to many advisors. While with a normal ruler the greater the advisors the better, but Yuan Shao was not a normal ruler. Much has been made of his indecisiveness, and this is another part where it hurts him. Because he had so many advisors offering him different advice at different time he couldn't choose just one and stick with it. I think each of the advisors were capable men on their own, but they plotted against one another also instead of helped each other, and provide him with one unified plan that Yuan shao would definatly follow. Or even if one rose above the others that one could convince the weak minded Yuan Shao to follow his plans. What do you think?
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Unread postby Vanman » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:37 pm

The thing that gets me is why didn't Yuan Shao denounce Dong Zhou as a traitor to the Han right after Dong came to him with the plan to dethrone Shao Di in favor of Liu Xie. Were not the troops loyal to the Emperor and Yuan Shao more numerous than those lead by or allied to Dong Zhou? What was the point of making his excuse then leaving the city?

Dong was right there, in front of him, plotting the overthrow of the rightful sovreign. Why not raise your sword against the tyrant the second after the plan left his lips?

Am I right in beleving that oppritunity fell through Yuan Shao's hands like rain through air?
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:52 pm

Vanman wrote:The thing that gets me is why didn't Yuan Shao denounce Dong Zhou as a traitor to the Han right after Dong came to him with the plan to dethrone Shao Di in favor of Liu Xie. Were not the troops loyal to the Emperor and Yuan Shao more numerous than those lead by or allied to Dong Zhou? What was the point of making his excuse then leaving the city?

Dong was right there, in front of him, plotting the overthrow of the rightful sovreign. Why not raise your sword against the tyrant the second after the plan left his lips?

Am I right in beleving that oppritunity fell through Yuan Shao's hands like rain through air?


Well at that point Dong Zhuo controlled the capital and all the soldiers in it. So Dong Zhuo had way more troops then anyone else at the capital. Yuan Shao had to leave in order to raise an army.
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Unread postby JamesD » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:07 pm

Lord Bio wrote:Hello,

I think Yuan Shao's problem is not lack of advisors but to many advisors. While with a normal ruler the greater the advisors the better, but Yuan Shao was not a normal ruler. Much has been made of his indecisiveness, and this is another part where it hurts him. Because he had so many advisors offering him different advice at different time he couldn't choose just one and stick with it. I think each of the advisors were capable men on their own, but they plotted against one another also instead of helped each other, and provide him with one unified plan that Yuan shao would definatly follow. Or even if one rose above the others that one could convince the weak minded Yuan Shao to follow his plans. What do you think?


Also how they took sides during a the war of the sons. Guo tu with Tan, Peng Ji and Shen Pei with Yuan Shang. Also they all had personal rivalries.
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Unread postby Zilong the Dragon » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:47 pm

but the indecisiveness of yuan shao was his problem from the beginning.he never was the man to to plan and act the same.i think thats why mengde constantly grew weary of benchu,although i don't understand why he gave benchu the command of the alliance against dong. maybe he thought thats the way he could show everybody how incapable benchu was of being a great commander, so later folks would rather join up with cao than with yuan...
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Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:39 am

Zilong the Dragon wrote:but the indecisiveness of yuan shao was his problem from the beginning.he never was the man to to plan and act the same.i think thats why mengde constantly grew weary of benchu,although i don't understand why he gave benchu the command of the alliance against dong. maybe he thought thats the way he could show everybody how incapable benchu was of being a great commander, so later folks would rather join up with cao than with yuan...


People joined with Cao rather than Yuan after seeing the rivalry of the advisors and seeing how orderly Cao Cao's rule was.

In his earlier years (ie: before he conquered all of his known territory), he was very sharp, and rather decisive on many things. He was able and full of personal strength. It dwindled as he grew in ego and status. He was the kind of person who was best placed as a subordinate, though not useless as a ruler.
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Unread postby Green Politico » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:07 am

Tan_Binrui wrote:People joined with Cao rather than Yuan after seeing the rivalry of the advisors and seeing how orderly Cao Cao's rule was.


Yeah, no joke. Cao Cao made Yuan Shao look like a bumbling fool. It just seemed that no matter what he did, it didn't help. Plus, Cao won people over because he used them better than Yuan Shao did. Good Tricks.
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