The Most Loyal

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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Striga » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:18 pm

I believe that by the time Quan went crazy, Zhao was dead of old age.
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:00 am

By the time Quan went into decline yes. Zhao still had to put with a lot of crazy and insults
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Striga » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:04 pm

I think he was more resilient than loyal. He was old, with little else to go, seeing as he lived his whole life serving the Sun family.
I feel sorry for him though. After all those years of service, if he could have just died peacefully, I think he'd be happy.
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:34 pm

I think Zhang Zhao did die peacefully and with head held high?

Had Zhang Zhao wanted, he could have walked into a luxurious retirement or a big job in any other kingdom. I think there were a number of factors behind his staying including loyalty.
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby PhoenixRising » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:47 am

Dian Wei, Zhou Tai and Zhao Yun. These three men are the most loyal from each kingdoms.

Well we also have Gao Shun, Chen Gong, Wang Yun, Liu Yu. But too me, those three are the most loyal and will gave their life for the sake of their lords.
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Iain » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:47 am

Some good names appear in this thread, somehow I get the notion that the General's with the shortest careers tended to be known as loyal since they arent around long enough to get sudden ideas about changing sides.

Indeed someone like He-Man with barely two paragraphs about him in the 3k novel could have been amazingly loyal to his master but he got taken down fast before he had a chance to rebel or switch sides. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby danuracula » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:13 pm

Zhou Yu.
He has the power but refuse to take the throne offered by Sun Ce in his dying day. And Zhou is the first man to give respect for the young-unexperienced-lord Sun Quan.
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:48 pm

danuracula wrote:Zhou Yu.
He has the power but refuse to take the throne offered by Sun Ce in his dying day.


What source is that from?
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Zhou Cang » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:54 pm

In fiction, I would suggest that Zhou Cang was the most loyal because he committed suicide when he heard that Guan Yu had been executed.


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Re: The Most Loyal

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:35 pm

danuracula wrote:Zhou Yu.
He has the power but refuse to take the throne offered by Sun Ce in his dying day. And Zhou is the first man to give respect for the young-unexperienced-lord Sun Quan.


Zhou Yu showed a great deal of loyalty to the Sun clan but Prof Rafe suggests that Zhou Yu may have declared independence if his plan to take Yi had come to fruition:

The death of Young Gentleman Zhou was a major blow to Sun
Quan's position in Jing province. Victor at the Red Cliffs and
dominant figure in the allied command, Zhou Yu had been able to
maintain an authority which balanced that of Liu Bei. One might
wonder, perhaps, as Liu Bei is said to have suggested to Sun Quan in
private conversation, whether Zhou Yu would be prepared to serve
indefinitely as the subordinate of another; and one may certainly
suspect that if Zhou Yu had established himself in Yi province he
might in future have dealt with Sun Quan as an equal rather than as a
suzerain. But that was now in the realm of might-have-been, and
when Sun Quan held full mourning for Zhou Yu he was right to do
so. Zhou Yu had been a pillar of great strength to his state, and it
would be very hard to find a replacement for him.
From his deathbed, Zhou Yu recommended
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
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