RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Koei’s Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series—discuss it here.

Do you think Koei’s Three Kingdoms has become worse or better with time?

Better!
64
48%
Worse…
26
19%
About the same…
22
16%
I haven’t played enough of them…
22
16%
 
Total votes : 134

Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby Skydree » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:06 pm

I could find technical reasons and such for my personal choice but instead I'll go with this. The third one is what introduced me to RtK. So, that's my personal favorite. :P All others I will forever compare to it, and not the other way around! XD But I am sure they each have their merits. I did like 7 and 8, as well. :)
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:32 am

Yeah similar.

I want to say II is a little too oversimplified but to be honest I have never really played it. And I actually wasn't that bad of a game for its time, but I don't think it will have aged that well. III is what got me hooked on the series, though.

I think we can all agree to stay away from IV though! :lol:

I wouldn't judge the battle AI in III to be too terrible. But it does fall for some stupid stuff. It can be a bit of a numbers game, but having solid generals (INT is surprisingly important) goes a long way. The main issue with III for me is that it has some pretty serious game-breaking exploits. They aren't blatantly obvious exploits like XI's ports and gates, but the results are far more advantageous for the player. We're talking stuff like making the loyalty of every officer on a force drop 30 points... :!:
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby DragonAtma » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:06 am

Rotk2 is definitely fun, but there are two main problems:
(1) The AI needs improvement; at the very minimum, war is completely ignored when assigning soldiers and when determining who invades (so Yin Mo is as likely to be picked for an inavasion as Zhao Yun).
(2) They made some rather... bad choices when asssigning stats. Most stats aren't that far off, but in some cases they really dropped the ball; two of the worst cases are Liu Zhang (70/50/90 int/war/charm) and Yue Jin (38/44/41).

Namestatfix deals with the stat problem (Liu Zhang is now 29/12/69, Yue Jin is now 53/92/62), but fixing the AI would require a programmer.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby Skydree » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:07 pm

DragonAtma wrote:Rotk2 is definitely fun, but there are two main problems:
(1) The AI needs improvement; at the very minimum, war is completely ignored when assigning soldiers and when determining who invades (so Yin Mo is as likely to be picked for an inavasion as Zhao Yun).
(2) They made some rather... bad choices when asssigning stats. Most stats aren't that far off, but in some cases they really dropped the ball; two of the worst cases are Liu Zhang (70/50/90 int/war/charm) and Yue Jin (38/44/41).

Namestatfix deals with the stat problem (Liu Zhang is now 29/12/69, Yue Jin is now 53/92/62), but fixing the AI would require a programmer.



The stat thing kinda went on in the later games as well. Yue Jin was barely a general in three. :D Guo Jia's POL and INT stats were reversed as well. XD (something like 98 and 80. Should have been 98 INT, not POL)

As much as fourth go. At least the soundtrack was amazing. That is one thing I liked about four was the music track. I had it on PSone, so maybe they had upgraded it. Not sure. :)

Quick update on my Qiao Mao conquest in third. No sign of Wang Can yet. My ruler is on the verge of dying. Li Yan will replace him, because I love his portrait. :D The Empire stretches from Wan/Luo Yang to Wu (Hui Ji is falling in a couple months), and from Ping Yuan/Ye, to Lu Jiang. At this point the next forces that rival is Dong Zhuo and Liu Zhang both with four cities. Dong Zhuo's Empire is cut in half, with one city apart (Jin Yang I think? North of Ye) and I have just found the Hereditary Seal. The year is 203, if I recall. Might be 202. ^^;
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby unfies » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:52 pm

DragonAtma wrote:but fixing the AI would require a programmer.


Project IA for the win :)

I'm quite nervous about how to text-ify AI stuff though :(. Text file configuration of the data sets (generals/provinces), and text file configuration of the math formulas wasn't too bad to implement. Text file configuration of the GUI is making progress...

Text file configuration of event causes and event effects is proving to be a bit more issuey - but I think we got that nailed down pretty good.

Moving on to the AI is gonna prove to be painful. Can probably at least have *hints* in the text file form without too much trouble (a list of possible actions, something for generating weighted choices of what to do based on current conditions, when doing a particular action prefer to use folks with high stat X, etc).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as ROTK2 assigning soldiers, I would *guess* that it's a matter of Loyalty and then a matter of Alignment. Which does make some sense from a real life perspective. At least experience seems to suggest this. Invasion general choices does seem to be haphazard / based on soldier counts rather than war ability :(.

And yes, it only looks at soldier counts when deciding if to invade or not etc.
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:46 am

unfies wrote:And yes, it only looks at soldier counts when deciding if to invade or not etc.


Heck that's probably why you find it more challenging. III does goofy but well-intended stuff like send single unit parties to whittle down your food, launches doomed campaigns against battlefields to try to keep you from taking the cities beyond them, and just generally nips at your heels. I don't think I have ever been unduly challenged when on the defensive, since its intentions are rarely to wage a proper war between two massive armies.

It can be a bit wittier when it's on the defensive, if you don't take advantage of the assorted exploits available. I have had games where I plow through all of China except for one corner - like say Liu Zhang down in Shu - and then have to wage unexpectedly quite tough final battles because the guy just sat there and amassed a couple of hundred thousand troops and his officers are loyal and all that good stuff. I mean I would have a million plus troops just hanging around and would win by sheer grinding, but that's not what I wanted.

But yeah if I just camped out for a while and let Liu Zhang attack me in such a situation, the rivers would be crimson with the blood of his soldiers and all that :lol:
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby Dracaveli » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:48 am

Skydree wrote:As much as fourth go. At least the soundtrack was amazing. That is one thing I liked about four was the music track. I had it on PSone, so maybe they had upgraded it. Not sure. :)



IV: wall of fire is excellent on PC to a degree, there is no live cutscenes, just an animated drawing, but the music is far superb..It was done live with Tokyo City Philharmonic Orchestra.

The map layout is highly detailed as well.

I was looking for a way to incorporate the cutscenes from psone to the pc version but no luck, also would be good to improve the AI a bit especially in diplomacy but that is quite the undertaking.
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby SDragon » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:23 pm

unfies wrote:Also, SDragon if you're still around: i'm still shaken at the thought of Cha affects land/flood improvement. Can't wait to test it.


Hey, wow, it's been a while. I did find the algorithm before though I can't recall the actual HEX location.

Land and Flood
x = (int / 2 + chr) * ((100 - land/2) * (gold / 100))
increase = (square root ((square root x) / 2)) / 2

I guess to mod it the first step would be to think whether the current behavior is too low, too high, or whatnot. Then see where the change can be made to either lower it more or make it a higher increase.
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby SDragon » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:07 pm

MOD Article -> VII (ROTK2 PC Mods)

I did this previously but I guess I was looking to complete other parts before posting, but I'll post it now anyways.

F360 (Hex Address) -> 80 7E FC 02 -> cmp byte ptr [bp-4], 2
Controls the maximum number of provinces that the disaster spreads to (default is 2), but can increase if you want. The code will just continue running the disaster until the loop meets the conditional number.

Epidemic Variables
Loyalty Minimum % Value [F10A] 05 32 00 -> sets loyalty min at 50
Loyalty Increase RND Value [F0FE] B8 15 00 -> adds a random number of 19 to the loyalty
Population Minimum % Value [F131] 05 4B 00 -> sets pop min at 75
Population Increase RND Value [F125] B8 10 00 -> adds a random number of 15 to the pop
Men Minimum % Value [EFC9] 05 46 00 -> sets men min at 70
Men Increase RND Value [EFB6] B8 06 00 -> adds a random number of 5 to the men

Locusts Variables
Loyalty Minimum % Value [F05E] 05 46 00 -> sets loyalty min at 70
Loyalty Increase RND Value [F052] B8 15 00 -> adds a random number of 19 to the loyalty
Land Minimum % Value [F085] 05 32 00 -> sets land min at 50
Land Increase RND Value [F079] B8 15 00 -> adds a random number of 19 to the land

Floods Variables
Loyalty Minimum % Value [F24A] 05 5A 00 -> sets loyalty min at 90
Loyalty Increase RND Value [F23E] B8 0A 00 -> adds a random number of 09 to the loyalty
Flood Minimum % Value [F2A8] 05 3C 00 -> sets flood min to 60
Flood Increase RND Value [F29C] B8 15 00 -> adds a random number of 19 to the flood
Land Minimum % Value [F283] 83 C1 3C -> sets land min to 60
Land Increase RND Value [F265] B8 08 00 -> adds a random number of 7 to the land
Land Flood Divide by 3 [F279] B3 03 -> Divides flood by 3 and adds to land (so 100 flood adds 33 land to saved value)

Riot Variables
Population Minimum % Value [F194] 83 C1 4B -> sets pop min to 75
Population Increase RND Value [F176] B8 06 00 -> sets rnd value of 0-5 to pop
Population Flood Divide by 5 [F18A] B3 05 00 -> divides flood by 5 and adds to pop
Loyalty Minimum % Value [F1CB] 83 C1 3C -> sets loyalty min to 60
Loyalty Increase RND Value [F1AD] B8 08 00 -> adds random value of loyalty from 0-7
Loyalty Flood Divide by 3 [F1C1] B3 03 -> divides flood by 3 and adds to loyalty
Land Minimum % Value [F1FC] 05 2D 00 -> sets land min at 45
Land Increase RND Value [F1E4] B8 06 00 -> adds random value of land from 0-5
Land Divide by 2 [F1E4] D0 E9 -> divides land by 2 and adds to min
Flood Minimum % Value [F220] 05 4B 00 -> sets land min at 75
Flood Increase RND Value [F214] B9 0A 00 -> adds random value of land from 0-9

Missing Typhoons but they might just be multiple Flood Algorithms.
Not sure if I'll have time for all the other work I had planned, but sharing for others who enjoy modding their game.
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Re: RTK I–V Discussion Thread

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:00 pm

I actually loved RTK2. That said, there's a question that's been bugging me for two decades.

In the game, who comes of age for whom is based on ruler. If you start in the first scenario as Cao Cao, you get Cao Ang and Xiahou Mao in 191, Sima Yi in 195, etc.

Here's the problem. Any officer that is meant to come of age more than 10 years after the start of the scenario usually comes of age 5 or 10 years late. As an example, in later scenarios, Xiahou Hui/He/Ba/etc. join Cao Cao in certain years starting in I believe 201. If you start in the first scenario, however, they won't show up until 210 or later.

Anyone know why this is?
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