RTK XIII thread

Koei’s Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series—discuss it here.

Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby rk47 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:37 am

Improved Siege weapons actually has an impact if you use Siege Towers or if you have defensive ballista.
You will see the siege towers/ballista firing at ALL unit within range, instead of just firing at just 1.

I do recall that Weapons skill actually adds to the durability/multi-shot tower as well.
But cannot confirm.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:50 am

rk47 wrote:Improved Siege weapons actually has an impact if you use Siege Towers or if you have defensive ballista.
You will see the siege towers/ballista firing at ALL unit within range, instead of just firing at just 1.

I do recall that Weapons skill actually adds to the durability/multi-shot tower as well.
But cannot confirm.


Actually, the weapons skill would explain the discrepancy between same city units' siege towers that I noticed. One unit was Cao Cao who has a few levels of it, the other was Zhang Liao who does not. That clears up one mystery, thank you for pointing that out.

That said, I thought siege towers automatically fired at all targets? It is in their description? And I can't say I've ever seen ballista doing that, I know the weapons skill upgrades them to Zhuge-nu which do that, but not the basic ballista. If they did that I might not be so quick to dismiss siege equipment, as it stands I just blast the gate with my troops 90% of the time...

I read on another board about setting up siege tower choke points, I would have to mess around with it but on paper that sounds horrendously expensive. Makes me wonder if the cost reduction techs stack, the small + large siege reduction would add up to like 75% which would enable that kind of choke point thing.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:56 am

Back to being a quiet thread again lol

Interesting discovery. Everyone has assumed that Lu Bu has to die to enable the Guan Yu Surrenders event to trigger, but if you're playing as Cao Cao himself, that's not the case. In my test run, Cao Cao and Lu Bu became sworn siblings. However, as long as you keep rapport/force relations up high enough through either direct interactions (Lu Bu likes booze yay) or diplomacy, by the time you conquer Lu Bu, I imagine you should be able to recruit him, unless there's some weird game mechanic I'm not factoring in.

The Red Hare also just has to be in the possession of Cao Cao's force, I didn't test thoroughly but both Cao Cao and Lu Bu willingly surrendered it over the course of the event. (Don't think there's special dialogue though).

=====

Trying to play through with events on and following everything can be pretty monotonous. The gameplay moves quite rapidly normally, but then you'll go years without anything to do except build your cities up I guess. Playing as Liu Bei in particular, I can't imagine there being a point to anything you do prior to the move to...Xinye? He continually loses his cities so there's no point in developing. And since his force gets wiped out in the Guan Yu Surrenders event he loses all his extraneous personnel.

I'm curious now about what points for each major force would be an ideal time to get off the event carousel.

Cao Cao - I was thinking either immediately after the evacuation of Luoyang, or maybe To Xuchang or even declining the attack on Tao Qian after Cao Song is murdered.
Liu Bei - Hop off immediately? Nah...it's probably after he gets a hold of Xu, or basically how it's set up at the start of 195 with Cao Cao holed up in Jibei
Suns - They have terrible event results so I don't know why the player would seek any of them out except Sun Ce going independent

Honestly, aside from the Dong Zhuo stuff (because he will blob hard if not killed), the events rarely have a positive overall outcome.

=====

I think I read the answer elsewhere, but couldn't hurt to ask again. The lifespan boosting items stack, or don't stack? Anyone know? It's kind of cute to buy people like Guo Jia and Cao Pi a few more years but most of the items don't provide much time.

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Edit: regarding sieges, gate strength, and so forth. Read on another board that the PUK does make the gates tougher, but the AI is actually worse at dealing with siege ladders so it doesn't matter anyway. I was hoping Koei would right the ship, so to speak, and buff damage for siege and castle weapons so they hit hard. But I will probably just do that myself with Van's editor. Because currently, when I can spend 2000 gold on either 10000 bad-ass elite troops that castle weapons barely faze, or a one-time construction of a wimpy, feeble catapult, the troops win every time.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:27 am

Zyzyfer wrote:(Lu Bu likes booze yay)

Eventually I realized that alcohol is not only readily sold in every town but has a very good price-to-value rate, so handing out booze it how I keep officer loyalty up, no matter who I'm playing as or what officer needs a loyalty increase.

And since his force gets wiped out in the Guan Yu Surrenders event he loses all his extraneous personnel.

Are these events avoidable if you're playing as the affected ruler?

Also so few Wu events. Started as Sun Ce in 195 and the first one I saw was his assassination. Seriously, Koei?
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby rk47 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:58 am

There are different application to siege weapons.
Siege towers are more specialized at shooting down enemy troops, and should be deployed near points of conflicts. They're crap on their own but when massed and deployed by a Weapons expert - they will fire harder and at multiple units at the same time. They also deal direct damage to any camp - regardless if any enemy unit is garrison within it or not - this isn't possible with normal attack, the damage is low but steady - 2-3 siege towers deployed near an enemy main camp will force the defenders to engage or lose the battle when the main camp is destroyed.

Catapults are specialized in taking down structure from long range. Gates, camps are targeted first, while enemy troops is set to the lowest priority. If you see that the city defense has hard hitting, multishot ballistas, it's best to be patient and let the catapult deal with the gate from range before trying to attack and eat heavy casualty. You can also outrange the main camp's defenses and simply let the catapult wreck it for you for victory.

Siege Ladders are for rushers. 2 is a good number to deploy at different section of the walls to prevent the enemy from blocking their path. It's the quickest path to victory - and doesn't damage the gates, perfect when you are defending against a counter-attack. Rushers can also head down and open the gates from inside for others to rush through. A fast attack cannot do without a siege ladder.

Battering Ram is the least useful of all siege weapons. I hardly use it.

Siege Towers / Catapults are end-game weapons due to the price.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:44 am

Gray Riders wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:(Lu Bu likes booze yay)

Eventually I realized that alcohol is not only readily sold in every town but has a very good price-to-value rate, so handing out booze it how I keep officer loyalty up, no matter who I'm playing as or what officer needs a loyalty increase.


Yes it's great, easy to get, easy to replace, it has three tiers of preference instead of two so you can hit more people with it, as ruler you can award it to those pesky teetotalers, good value (optimal is like 5 points for 200 gold, nice), and makes banquets useful if done right.

I'm planning to tweak a lot of the items because of the inconsistencies but won't be touching alcohol.

Are these events avoidable if you're playing as the affected ruler?


Dunno. User TheNewTeddy over on the Gamefaqs board has been working on an event FAQ. Some events give the player a choice as certain officers so maybe Liu Bei has a choice in some of the Xu events. It's tricky because you have to break the conditions (usually easy) but the Xu event string is all very very compact, so if Liu Bei doesn't get any choice options then you'd have to do something drastic to stop the chain.

Somewhat less stressful, if you end up following the chain until Liu Bei is in Qiao, he won't have Xu, but he will have all his resources and most(?) of the officers he's picked up up to that point, and the Guan Yu Surrenders event seems easier to avoid. You could just "chip in" and take out Lu Bu, move south, etc. But if you let Guan Yu Surrenders play out, the end result is Liu Bei with a brand new force stuck in Xinye with limited supplies and 12 fixed officers...

Also so few Wu events. Started as Sun Ce in 195 and the first one I saw was his assassination. Seriously, Koei?


It's so sad. I liked XI for this because even though most of Wu's events were lame or had super weird conditions, at least they had events. And the events were useful. Sun Ce Marches basically sticks him in Lujiang with a serious gold problem, just like in his Hero Mode scenario which I restarted zillions of times. There's no point to letting the assassination succeed except for RP purposes. And all of the Chibi stuff is fairly inconsequential for Wu if I recall correctly, Shu comes out ahead there. Given how inane many of the events actually are, they could easily have tossed in the Chen Deng repulsions, Huang Zu fights, conquering Jiangdong, the Xuchang what-if.

rk47 wrote:They also deal direct damage to any camp - regardless if any enemy unit is garrison within it or not - this isn't possible with normal attack, the damage is low but steady - 2-3 siege towers deployed near an enemy main camp will force the defenders to engage or lose the battle when the main camp is destroyed.


At the risk of sounding argumentative, which I'm not trying to be...

I am aware of this but can personally only see the potential benefits in really desperate battles where time is working against you (i.e. low food) and the AI knows it and turtles like Donatello. Or sometimes the enemy reinforcements arrive late and are stuck in the main base because you've surrounded it - I just pull my units back a bit in this case. But in my experience, usually the AI just marches everything out in a mad blitz for my bases that's reminiscent of Gemfire.

Maybe I got some beta, idiot AI version? :lol:

Anyway, maybe it's about playing styles? I'm generally a very conservative player, don't take risks, let the enemy come to me, etc. I just personally have yet to see anything except siege ladders prove useful on a consistent enough basis to prioritize siege/castle weapons...
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby rk47 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:30 am

I just don't think an army needs more than 2 ladders. I really like playing aggressively anyway with Fast Expansion for the AI setting so they'll actually 'Play2Win'
By mid game, my army consists around 6-8 elite units anyway. The others shouldn't waste their siege weapon slots on more ladders. Especially when the population blob starts to get insane at midgame and the AI start dropping 20-30k reinforcements while defending a city with 40k.

It works great on defense too. Nothing like dropping 3 siege towers behind your gate and shredding the attackers to pieces.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:14 am

Hmm I didn't mean to imply I make everyone tote siege ladders. I just hit auto form on each city and if I have the gold they bring whatever gear they want.

Maybe I will change my tune on fast growth and expansion, who knows.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby Gray Riders » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Zyzyfer wrote:It's so sad. I liked XI for this because even though most of Wu's events were lame or had super weird conditions, at least they had events. And the events were useful. Sun Ce Marches basically sticks him in Lujiang with a serious gold problem, just like in his Hero Mode scenario which I restarted zillions of times. There's no point to letting the assassination succeed except for RP purposes. And all of the Chibi stuff is fairly inconsequential for Wu if I recall correctly, Shu comes out ahead there. Given how inane many of the events actually are, they could easily have tossed in the Chen Deng repulsions, Huang Zu fights, conquering Jiangdong, the Xuchang what-if.

I comfort myself by saying Wu's so OP it doesn't need events to help them like Wei and Shu. :lol:

Although not having a Lu Meng event means he's good even if you're playing as somebody not named Sun Quan (he always had good stats in XI with events disabled). I picked him up fairly early as Lu Bu and have high hopes for him.

But in my experience, usually the AI just marches everything out in a mad blitz for my bases that's reminiscent of Gemfire.

Gemfire. :) I got that game as a present a few years ago. Wish the AI was a bit btter and trading food wasn't so OP.

Maybe I will change my tune on fast growth and expansion, who knows.

The system where population=troops with no way to quickly hire more means reckless expansion is a lot safer than in most ROTK games. Playing as Lu Bu in 195 I gobbled up most of the empty cities with no reprecussions or attempts to capitalize from the AI, and even if they did I could march reinforcements or just abandon the city.
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Re: RoTK XIII Announced! Screenshots and Release Date (Dec 1

Unread postby rk47 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:17 pm

It's the only way to make the AI play to win.
On normal, the smaller ones just wait to get gobbled up by the super power clans like Yuan and Cao.
On fast + fictional, they expand aggressively.

The meek Liu Biao AI will bully Sun Ce in Warlords scenario if left unchecked since the latter only has one city.
Lu Bu will also seize surrounding cities and put up a good fight against Cao Cao instead of letting Cao Cao take the central plains unchallenged.
Ma Teng will seize Changan, ensuring the Emperor flees to Cao Cao event will never occur.
Liu Zhang and Liu Biao will butt heads and race to see who can wipe out Shi Xie first.
It' s way more interesting than 'normal' and is a source of amusement as you see officers getting killed on a yearly basis and archenemies were declared against one another.
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