Post heroes scenarios

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Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby lorindir » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:46 am

Good morning everyone.

First, let me explain the title of this topic. Post heroes was the name that I found to explain myself about the games that have scenarios after the main heroes of the history died :shock: (Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and so on). Most of the people don't pay much attention to them (maybe because the lack of officers and the difficult to maintain even one city well) but I actually like them, because I think the game becomes somehow more real, without 100 int or war, and without the "gods" skills Divine this, Divine that (ROTK XI). Who could think that mighty the Shu in the 210's :D would become the strugling one at 250's :cry: ? that is one reason to give those scenarios more "respect" :wink: , because win with top rated generals is kind of easy (fun as well, but easy).
Is there anybody else that like this kind of scenario?
One more question, why there is some point that officers simply stop from born? they could have these scenarios more "populated" (even with low quality officers :pika: ).

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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:57 am

lorindir wrote:Is there anybody else that like this kind of scenario?


Lord Cao Cao put out a quick mock-up of a later scenario. I think it is based on Cao Mao's attempted coup to return to power. But the problem with these scenarios is just as you mentioned, there are simply not that many officers around to even do basic tasks. I believe the game becomes basically unplayable in the 270s, certainly by the 280s, unless you set lifespans to fictional.

A few posters a while back compiled some bios for a number of officers from the later part of the era. But the majority are Jin officers, with a sprinkling of Wu guys. There aren't really any late Shu guys, for obvious reasons. So if they were added, there would be issues with reusing faces, and there would be a serious Wei/Jin advantage. (I can't imagine a scenario that starts after the fall of Shu would be fun.)

One more question, why there is some point that officers simply stop from born? they could have these scenarios more "populated" (even with low quality officers :pika: ).


My guess is that the designers felt it wasn't necessary to have the game getting up into the Eight Princes period of Jin, at that point, it's a completely different story being told.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby DragonAtma » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:55 am

RoTK9 had a Fall of Wu challenge scenario; like all challenge scenarios, it includes only part of the map (in this case, the standard wei/wu border).

And yeah, the lack of late Shu officers would be a big problem.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby lorindir » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:59 pm

RoTK9 had a Fall of Wu challenge scenario; like all challenge scenarios, it includes only part of the map (in this case, the standard wei/wu border).

And yeah, the lack of late Shu officers would be a big problem.


Yes, yes, I see that somewhere. The scenario that you play as Jin to destroy Sun Hao, that even his strategists have low INT. I think Zhang Ti was a good officer (to the service of a bad cause). But I just couldn't play the IX, the system is too different, more like Nobunaga's ambition I think, but that scenario would be great in the ROTK XI.

Lord Cao Cao put out a quick mock-up of a later scenario. I think it is based on Cao Mao's attempted coup to return to power.

Great!
Pity that I play the PS2 version in an emulator....
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby DragonAtma » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:09 am

I started with RoTK2, where the latest scenario is 220; the recent ones always seem to have at least one late scenario, often after Zhuge Liang is dead.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby lorindir » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:06 pm

DragonAtma wrote:RoTK9 had a Fall of Wu challenge scenario; like all challenge scenarios, it includes only part of the map (in this case, the standard wei/wu border).

And yeah, the lack of late Shu officers would be a big problem.


Yeah, I have played! :mrgreen:
They have also one that tells the fall of Shu (playing as shu is easy to understand why they fell...)
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby DL01 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:38 pm

This is one of the reason I was trying to solve by having more historical accurate office even if they are not well known or outstanding. Having mediocre officer is much better than not having officer at all.

I found one that imports about a hundred extra officer, but I'm not sure how helpful simply having extra unknown officers in.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:50 am

DL01 wrote:This is one of the reason I was trying to solve by having more historical accurate office even if they are not well known or outstanding. Having mediocre officer is much better than not having officer at all.

I found one that imports about a hundred extra officer, but I'm not sure how helpful simply having extra unknown officers in.


Well for XI...in very extreme cases those unknowns could staff cities in the back while your few remaining generals and such command at the front. So if you created a scenario that starts in the 260s you wouldn't have to worry so much about rushing to conquer the country within 10 years before the bulk of the officers die off.

Would it be enjoyable, that's more difficult to say.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby Gray Riders » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:18 pm

I felt that IX worked better for late scenarios--not perfect, but since you could lead large units with only one officer it was better than most of the rest of the series.

One simple solution I've mentioned before would be officer generation; an option to pay some gold and spit out a mediocre officer with 60s in their main stats. You could recruit a commander with lead and war or a minister with int, pol, and cha. You get someone with a random Chinese name, a random portrait, a brief generic bio, and so on.

It would also make guys like Gongsun Du more playable and fun to fight if they can actually deploy their army.
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Re: Post heroes scenarios

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:33 pm

The other problem is that early scenarios have many forces (so you can have wind up with something unexpected like Wang Lang vs Han Fu or something else surprising), whereas later scenarios only have three forces (and maybe Meng Huo or Gongsun Yuan), so there's much less variance.

On a side note, for a while Unfy and I were designing a 3k game, but it seems to be on hold -- but it did have the idea of random officers!
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

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