Dueling techniques

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Dueling techniques

Unread postby kiko94 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:57 am

Duels are one of the most fun aspects of the game, they are what you need to spice up your campaigns and boast about your general's abilities, I'll try to go through some of the techniques that are used by the players to get a win, on beginner and advanced, when you have a disadvantage , when you'r equal or have an advantage with higher war or items.

You can customize your officer's Appearance in the duel following this thread , they really add to the fun

In general duels same as unit battles, are based on a rock-paper-scissor type of game, Attack beats spirit , Defense beats attack and Spirit beats defence, fury is based mostly on luck, you can get 2 in a row or none in 10 bouts.
enemy generals usually use it at the start, although they might use spirit as well.



Small description of the dueling stances and special attacks
Stances:

Attack : is a great option to go with at start, at a disadvantage, at and advantage or even if you are equal, you always have a solid chance to get the upper hand no matter what, although it gives little spirit so if you want to base on those, make sure to switch to spirit now and then, its critical is a fury type of attack (3 or 4 bouts in a row)

Defense : it's the safe way to start a duel if you are equal or if attack isn't working, if your opponent have and advantage over you, or you need some spirit, the critical it gives makes you invincible for a few bouts, great deal if you are outnumbered or need a rest, find it a lot useful in advanced.

Spirit : everybody's favorite, enemy generals might start with that , you can notice it if the enemy is dealing/receiving damage but gets a lot of spirit out of it, its critical gives you an extra bar of spirit, although I find it rare in advanced,

Fury : Based mostly on luck, it can give you 8 attacks in 2 of your bouts, as well as it could make you loose half your health before getting one (4 attacks) the enemy seems to fend the attacks often, use it if you find yourself at a disadvantage and need the attacks, you really overthrow the fight with it

Special Attacks :

Mortal blow : deals decent damage if you have a good war stat, uses only 1 bar of spirit, use it when nobody has a large advantage in health, when you are using defense if you need to deal some damage back

Strike Vitals ; has a chance of injuring the enemy, could be something like 30 % or so, because I don't see it work THAT often, still it gives you a chance when fighting Lu Bu or some other tough guy and need a larger advantage, it deals about the same amount of damage as Mortal Blow ,eliminate the shout/iron defense bonuses

Mosu : everybody's favorite , if you ever played Dynasty Warriors, you know how useful it can be, dealing up to half health damage, a 50 or 60 % of injuring and the coolest animation of all :P it the ultimate reward for waiting for those 3 bars of spirit to fill up , eliminate the shout/iron defense bonuses

Throwing Knives : Bah, I don't think they that useful, good if you need the bout, their chance of injuring are slim, but they do eliminate the shout/iron defense bonuses

Feign retreat ; needs a bow, you get high chance of injuring the enemy , and even a boost of OHKOing them

Shout : gives a nice attack bonus and some extra bouts, acts like a temp war bonus, really good when attacking and want even more damage, duels at an advantage will be short tho :P

Iron defense : not bad too when facing a stronger enemy or if you are outnumbered, gives you more chance of dodging too


General Info on dueling
so now you have more info on dueling stances and attacks, but another major point you'll want to know is how the AI behaves in duels, one of the most important info is how are the chances of the enemy accepting the duel in the first place ? well the enemy tends to accept duels in which they supposed to have a chance of winning asking Lu Su for a duel using Lu Bu isn't gonna work
if your unit outnumbers the enemy ( 3 to 1 or so) the won't accept, if you have 3 vs 2 it might work and even 2 on 1 works, if the enemy outnumbers you
They are more likely to accept if the enemy unit is confused and has low troop count
Officer's personality plays a role, Reckless officers like Lu Bu and Zhang Fei are more likely to accept, although I do see them turn down the duels sometimes.
Enemy seems to love battling your rulers, so you get a higher chance if it is your ruler proposing the duel.
A Tip for increasing your chances is to save before asking, if the enemy refuses, relode, inspect or do other domestic actions, then try again, the chances will change, if it still doesn't work (even if you have proper conditions set up) try again with more actions , it should work.

Assistance : When you have multiple officers in one unit , they will help each other in the duel, how fast that happens, depends on the officers compatibility numbers, if you don't know, just think to which force they belong , it should give an idea if they will help each other fast or not, Liked officers and sworn siblings/married officers will help each other really quick, while disliked officer can be really slow to show up

Hidden Duel bonuses: it is know that the Five tiger generals of Shu (Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Ma Caho, Huan Zhong) and Lu Bu have extra war points, although it doesn't show up ingame, you can notice it when they duel, they never get OHKOed and have an increased attack and defense, it is not know how you can give it to your own created officers, unless you replace those guys with your own in the hex.

Items : the items that affect dueling are
Serpent Spear : Zhang Fei's weapon, it gives an extra chance of OHKOing the enemy and increases the attack
Blue Dragon Blade : Guan Yu's weapon, gives you more bouts (turns) than your enemy and an increased attack power
Crescent Halberd : Lu Bu's weapon, gives you and increased power
Bows : allow you to use feign retreat, which has a high chance of injuring your enemy, and OHKOing them
Throwing Blades : can hurt the enemy and removes the shout/Iron Defense bonuses
Swords : Liu Bei and Cao Cao hold them, they increase the spirit boost significantly, making the special attacks accessible more quickly
Elite Horse : makes your retreat always successful and gives you a chance of catching up the enemy when they try to escape


General Strategies
you can start with attack or defense, if you are have lower war than your enemy (6 or more points) start with defense ,and try to see which stance your enemy is using, if they are gaining spirit fast while getting hit or hitting you, it's spirit, attack beats it so switch to that, if they are not getting a lot of spirit , means they are using the attack stance, switch to defense and build up your spirit, when you have enough spirit, either go for shout (when attacking) or Iron defense (when defending) if you see that the enemy is hitting back, with the bonus you'll get the advantage, remember that thees will go once you switch generals. if you see that you have an advantage already, you migh want to wait for 3 bars of spirit and got for a 3X mortal blow or a Mosu, with good calculation you'll finish the enemy before they get a bout and attempt to escape.
For specifique tactics , refer to Zyzyfer's post and the discussion with a good technique with Zhuanyong

Edit : here are the videos I found, I got some more duels recorded, each video has a specifique tactique I think,
The first batch is mostly what Lord Cao Cao calls "Noob" Technique, works best on beginner where you have more spirit and more chance of criticals

Sorry about the quality for this one, it's a bit old didn't have a good grasp of video editing yet


This one works on advanced, kind of the same as the noob technique, you just have to try and get the enemy injured
[youtube]XJxfu60dI94?hd=[/youtube]
This one is supposed to be HD stuff


Next one comes on firiday, I need 10 hours to upload HD videos with my bandwith :lol:
Last edited by kiko94 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:10 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:38 am

I usually do the noob way when playing on Easy (don't like Advanced). Defend all the time, when you get a random DEF boost (allowing you to block all enemy attacks) switch to Spirit, and well, repeat until you can so 3 specials and then Musou your enemy to win. :lol:
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:50 pm

Zhuanyong had worked out some complex system he thought excelled, involved a decent amount of stance switches. Me, I'm not much different from Lord Cao Cao, even on Advanced. I mainly pay attention to the damage I'm taking vs. dealing and change stances accordingly. Usually start on defense but I've been shocked a few times on reloads to see attack stance rock in unexpected circumstances.
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby kiko94 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:53 pm

woah never noticed the def boost from the stance blocks all attacks :shock: there is no noob way, the AI requires us to do it, they always seem to start at attack stance, (i notice because they don't get a lot of spirit) so defence is always the wining side, sometimes the AI gets too strong, I have a lost a duel while I was chen dao the AI has some strategist with 55 war and he beat the crap out of me, I have recorded that and it's in youtube I'll share it here later
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:39 pm

The AI doesn't always start on attack but it's a pretty safe bet that it does. I've definitely seen it open with spirit stance before.
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:16 pm

Zyzyfer wrote:Zhuanyong had worked out some complex system he thought excelled, involved a decent amount of stance switches. Me, I'm not much different from Lord Cao Cao, even on Advanced. I mainly pay attention to the damage I'm taking vs. dealing and change stances accordingly. Usually start on defense but I've been shocked a few times on reloads to see attack stance rock in unexpected circumstances.


It was what I called Spirit-Attack-Defense. I usually switched between spirit and attack to start off my duels and used defense when necessary. If I find the page that I mentioned it, I'll post it here.

I would say that if anyone watched those videos (duels or battle with duels during them) in the Magnificent Ones of SoSZ thread, I pretty used that system in my duels then.

Personally, I almost always start my duels in spirit stance and switch to attack and back to spirit. I use defense when I'm going up against someone significantly stronger, or if there are multiple officers on both sides.

EDIT: This is the page(s) that we were having that discussion.

http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14927&p=535643&hilit=spirit+attack+defend#p535643
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby kiko94 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:06 pm

Thanks for input Guys, I'll add the extra info when I get the time tomorrow, Added the videos and a description of each option, tomorrow will be info on how the duel goes and some general strategies , (like burning Lu Bu before going in :lol: ), and adding the link to the 3D models thread ZhuanYong if you wouldn't mind I'd like to add your duels to the first post since they are great examples on your strategy .
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Hyper90 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:22 am

kiko94 wrote:Feign retreat ; needs a bow, you get 100 % chance of injuring the enemy , and even a boost fo OHKO them

Shout : gives a nice attack bonus and some extra bouts, acts like a temp war bonus, really good when attacking and want even more damage, duels at an advantage will be short tho

Iron defense : not bad too when facing a stronger enemy or if you are outnumbered, gives you more chance of dodging too


A little correction.
Feign retreat does not 100% injure the enemy. It has higher chance to injure enemies than 'strike vital'

Shout and Iron defense can be canceled off if you change officers in the duel.


Another tip on dueling.
If your guy and the opponent is fairly matched. You can placebet on attack stance. It turns out much better results than Spirit stance. But i wouldn't recommend using attack stance on the 3 top duelers :lol: .
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. " Sima Yi

take a look please
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:46 am

Hmm well my personal duel style isn't all that flashy but I'll babble about it a bit.

Opening: I always always always begin the duel with Defense unless I have a solid advantage - and even then it's usually only those officer recommendation duels where I start with Attack. The main reason actually isn't to protect myself. Instead, I don't want to deal too much damage early on, and prefer to build up my spirit meter. Why not just use Spirit stance, right? Well, since the AI often starts with the Attack stance, Spirit would leave me somewhat more vulnerable and cost me that little rock-scissors-paper advantage.

However, the AI doesn't always open with Attack, so I keep an eye on the enemy spirit bar. If it rises quickly, then I switch to Attack. Also, if I seem to be taking a lot of hits anyway despite being in Defense, I also switch to Attack.

Mid Duel: People start jumping in around this time and low WAR strategists are often easy fodder. If my opening strategy has played out well, I usually have a solid advantage, or at the very least am in a safe situation, like two 70s WAR guys farting around, or two strategists duking it out with 10 WAR. Now, I could throw my big gun back in to try to take advantage of this, but once again, I hold the top WAR person back. This is where I switch to Spirit stance. Since I don't care about the outcome - I don't want to catch some mediocre officer or wimpy INT guy (unless they're good), I use this window to try to max out my spirit meter. Another bonus of drawing out this part is that the AI will usually burn through its spirit meter around this time, wasting it on frivolous attacks that don't concern me.

Once the wimp on my side starts getting low on health, I switch out for my top WAR guy and change to Attack stance.

Conclusion: I think it's pretty obvious what I've set up here. I've built up a full or nearly full spirit meter while the AI doesn't have much spirit. My duelist isn't too low on health. I have a lot of options, but generally, I just let Attack stance do its thing, and throw out a Mortal Blow when spirit is maxed. When I think the enemy general is low enough on health, I toss out either Mortal Blow x 3 or a Musou.

And that's that. Yeah, it's not flashy. But it raises the chances of me capturing the enemy general. If I start off too strong, enemy officers are more likely to attempt to flee. Since I want that capture, I hold back and unleash everything when it's too late to flee.

-----

Single officer duels with comparable WAR, my approach is a little different. I usually stick with Defense the whole time and rely on the defense bursts to keep my general safe while I build up spirit. I never bother with Spirit stance but I do switch up to Attack when I'm ready to throw out the Mortal Blow x 3 to wrap things up.
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Re: Dueling techniques

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:06 am

Zyzyfer wrote:Hmm well my personal duel style isn't all that flashy but I'll babble about it a bit.

Opening: I always always always begin the duel with Defense unless I have a solid advantage - and even then it's usually only those officer recommendation duels where I start with Attack. The main reason actually isn't to protect myself. Instead, I don't want to deal too much damage early on, and prefer to build up my spirit meter. Why not just use Spirit stance, right? Well, since the AI often starts with the Attack stance, Spirit would leave me somewhat more vulnerable and cost me that little rock-scissors-paper advantage.

However, the AI doesn't always open with Attack, so I keep an eye on the enemy spirit bar. If it rises quickly, then I switch to Attack. Also, if I seem to be taking a lot of hits anyway despite being in Defense, I also switch to Attack.

Mid Duel: People start jumping in around this time and low WAR strategists are often easy fodder. If my opening strategy has played out well, I usually have a solid advantage, or at the very least am in a safe situation, like two 70s WAR guys farting around, or two strategists duking it out with 10 WAR. Now, I could throw my big gun back in to try to take advantage of this, but once again, I hold the top WAR person back. This is where I switch to Spirit stance. Since I don't care about the outcome - I don't want to catch some mediocre officer or wimpy INT guy (unless they're good), I use this window to try to max out my spirit meter. Another bonus of drawing out this part is that the AI will usually burn through its spirit meter around this time, wasting it on frivolous attacks that don't concern me.

Once the wimp on my side starts getting low on health, I switch out for my top WAR guy and change to Attack stance.

Conclusion: I think it's pretty obvious what I've set up here. I've built up a full or nearly full spirit meter while the AI doesn't have much spirit. My duelist isn't too low on health. I have a lot of options, but generally, I just let Attack stance do its thing, and throw out a Mortal Blow when spirit is maxed. When I think the enemy general is low enough on health, I toss out either Mortal Blow x 3 or a Musou.

And that's that. Yeah, it's not flashy. But it raises the chances of me capturing the enemy general. If I start off too strong, enemy officers are more likely to attempt to flee. Since I want that capture, I hold back and unleash everything when it's too late to flee.

-----

Single officer duels with comparable WAR, my approach is a little different. I usually stick with Defense the whole time and rely on the defense bursts to keep my general safe while I build up spirit. I never bother with Spirit stance but I do switch up to Attack when I'm ready to throw out the Mortal Blow x 3 to wrap things up.


After reading your post, your technique is not much different from my own with exception in one area i.e. the stance. Instead of defense, I tend to use spirit more often and especially so when a low WAR guy jumps in. I usually use attack where you may use defense. I also watch their spirit bar and determine whether or not I need to use attack or spirit. We both use the same special theory. I will use mortal blow up to three times as well to end a fight. In the end, from reading your style we use similar methodology just with different stances. Well we apparently get the same results. :D
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