agga wrote:doesn't zhang fei have higher int, ~80, in the later scenarios? maybe by the last one? or is that an earlier RTK?
Actually his Int is weird; pretty much everyone's stats raise or lower with age until they hit the peak (which is what number is coded into the files and used in rise of heroes, and presumably with stat change off), but Zhang Fei's Int keeps going up, theoretecally forever; in 217 it's actually higher
than what his Int is set to. It raises faster the higher it starts; changing Cao Cao's War at 72 to that type later on shot him to the 90s once.
So be warned; if you give him, say, 80 Int as his base, in 217 it could be 87 or something if you don't change it's growth type (I think that's explained on Koei's board's hex editing topic), too.
Actually, Providence for Sun Quan has one other big bonus; he's the only of the main three without a steed and hence the only capturable one.
As for Liu Chan losing it...meh. I think should be a Benevolent Ruler. He doesn't really deserve a unique skill, but I think the "no loyalty drop" would work for someone that was apprently very kind. Plus it would make him vaguely useful.
Any way we can get a list of the current planned stats? They're all over the place on Koei's topic and I can't remember them all.
I'll focus mostly on Shu and Other forces, since we seem to have done a pretty good job with Wei and Wu, but I still have a few suggestion for officers of those kingdoms.
XuanZhongda's Zhang Fei stats look good to me. Consider this a second for them.
Speaking of guys with crazy War, good Lead and not much else in-game, how about 80 for Lu Bu's Charisma? He was a huge jerk to people but quite a few still followed him and he recruited a fair number of talents (Zang Ba, Gao Shun, Zhang Liao), and his men refused to kill him even with permission from him. I'd also give him about, say, 74 Int historically; he was no Cao Cao but he saw through and countered an assassination plot and won too many battles to be a moron like he was in the novel. However, he apparently often failed to think out details for how to accomplish his goals, which is why I wouldn't put too high.
Aside from having Skills I think Yuan Shao's advisors could use some Int boosts (except Guo Tu and Xu You). Suggestions:
*Tian Feng--96. Reason: He came up with an excellent plan to defeat Cao Cao and constantly pushed to destroy him at various opportunities. Cao Cao himself said that if his advice was followed things he would have remained in balance.
*Ju Shou--95. Reason: He came up with a plan for Yuan Shao to unify the land, and it was working perfectly until Yuan Shao ignored the last step.
*Feng Ji--87. Reason: He came up with the Ye conquering plan, which catapulted Yuan Shao into power.
*Shen Pei--85. Reason: Came up with a scheme that almost killed Cao Cao at Ye, hiding crossbows and waiting for him to come into range to inspect the siegeworks. In the novel he came up with the plans at Guandu that gave Cao Cao trouble (historically they seem to be Yuan Shao's own though).
Some other suggestions:
*Get rid of all uses of the Capture skill. Suggested replacements:
Pan Zhang--Chain Attack.
*Yuan Shao: Lead 85, War 75, Int 80, Spear S. Reason: Was going to fight Dong Zhuo sword to sword in the capital, so I doubt he was a weakling. Beat Gongsun Zan handily (given S spears to enable that in-game), swept through the bandits that rose in Ye during the war. Trying to surround and isolate Cao Cao at Guandu was a good plan, failing not from his own mistakes but because Cao Cao was so skilled (and since all it cost him was the messengers he sent, the failure didn't even hurt him). After Guandu he was able to swiftly recapture the cities that defected to Cao Cao.
*Yuan Tan: Lead 74, War 72. Reason: Conquered Bei Hai and defeated Tian Kai. Had a good reputation as a general. He and Yuan Shang did ultimately prevent Cao Cao's first advance from taking He Bei. They may have handed him a major defeat at Liyang (sources disagree).
*Yuan Shang: Lead 75, War 77. Reason: Won a duel against the very competant Shi Huan and repeatedly defeated Yuan Tan. He and Yuan Tan did ultimately prevent Cao Cao's first advance from taking He Bei. They may have handed him a major defeat at Liyang (sources disagree).
*Guo Yuan: Lead 85, skill "Siege". Reason: Captured several cities and was giving Cao Cao trouble, ultimately being defeated because of Ma Teng's reinforcements.
*Zhang Xiu (the Wan one): Lead 87. Reason: Even with Jia Xu, winning those battles against Cao Cao required command skill, and after the defeat of Yuan Tan he received more households for reward than any other Cao Cao officer--more than twice as many households as any other general. Sadly we don't know exactly what he accomplished there.
I'd suggest changing his skill; his War is too low to use Cavalry General. How about Vehemeance, since three officers were killed in the ambush at Wan?
*Probably controversial, but I switched Wen Chou's skill to Stampede and gave Cavalry General to Gao Lan (who I gave S class cavalry and a War of 89 or so--after all, he fought Xu Chu evenly in the novel) and think it would fit here too. Stampede would give him a skill on the same level as Yan Liang's Majesty but with drawbacks (doesn't work on other very strong Cavalry officers, marshes and forests block it and forests are common). Plus it seems to fit Wen Chou's scene in the novel where he charges right through Gongsun Zan's army, killing a general and plenty of troops before going right through Gongsun Zan's army (evidently routing or severly demoralizing it, since Gongsun Zan withdrew to fight the next day).
*Gao Shun. Lead: 92, War 89, Int 80. Reason: Attacked Liu Bei, decisively beat off Cao Cao's reinforcements (which included Xiahou Yuan in the novel) then drove Liu Bei out. Put down a military revolt quickly and decisively.Said that his troops found victory whenever they fought despite being only seven hundred strong, and the method they fought with (breaking in and getting surrounded by the enemy formation) required him to be both an inspiring leader and a powerful fighter. Gave Lu Bu good advice, often remonstrating him for his inconsistency and failure to plan efficently.
*Chen Gong: Int 92. Reason: Novelwise, he tricked (or almost tricked) or predicted the actions of Cao Cao and his officers a few times and came up with plenty of good suggestions. No match for higher end strategiests like Guo Jia but quite smart.
*Cheng Yu: Int 94. Reason: Saw through fire attack in the novel. Historically, he knew that not receiving reinforcements would stop Yuan Shao from attacking him and talked Cao Cao out of sending his family to Ye for safekeeping during the battle for Yan, stopped Lu Bu from taking three cities, and correctly predicted that Gongsun Zan would lose the war with Yuan Shao despite holding the upper hand at that time. I have no idea why Koei rated him so low in some of the games.
*Ling Tong: 85 Lead, 90 War, Int 61, 85 Charisma, skill Pike General. Reason: Gonna require explaining for such a big jump, so this is a bit long. At the age of 15, he led an attack so fierce the side of the garrison he charged was overcome instantly. In the attack on Huang Zu he rode far ahead of the main force with tends of marines; he beheaded one of Huang Zu's generals and captured his soldiers. Later, when Huang Zu used two great ships to block the river with one thousand crossbows, Ling Tong and Dong Xi stormed it with one hundred men each and cut the ropes anchoring them, letting Wu's fleet pass. Ling Tong was also the one to capture the city itself. At Hefei (the second part where Wu's vanguard was gone and Zhang Liao ambushed them) he rescued Sun Quan by charging into Zhang Liao's encirclement, killed scores of enemy and only fled after his entire force as dead. Later he suggested recruiting the hill people, and because he was known to treat men well, ten thousand elite troops joined him.
*Wu Tugu: War 92, Int 31. Reason: The guy, according to the novel, subsisted on poisoned creatures, towered over even Guan Yu, and wore impenetrable armor. I just think he should be scary to fight. Also, there is no reason for him to be the single stupidest person in existence, hence the "below average" Int instead.
*Qu Yi: Lead 89, War 85. Reason: Great general who humiliated Gongsun Zan with a tiny force. Boosted War means his skill actually works on the guy he defeated.
Now for Lu Meng; he's my favorite officer, so keep that in mind, but I am trying very hard to be objective for his stats. You already had plans for him on Koei's board, but I'd give him 93 Int and 86 War. He got his start as a warrior, killed Chen Jiu personally in battle, and protected Sun Quan at Hefei. He used tons of ploys that pretty much all succeeded, hence the Int. Novelwise, his War's pretty easy to go by; he was one of the few people willing to fight Guan Yu and threatened to fight Gan Ning and Ling Tong himself to break up their fight.
Anyways, you wanted Shu suggestions? You got em!
*Wang Ping: Lead 90, Int 86. Reason: Tried to stop Ma Su's mess. Was able to withstand Zhang He. Scored a victory over Wei when they invaded at the battle of Xingshi, planning everything out perfectly.
*Zhang Yi (the blue one): Int 77. Reason: Gave Jiang Wei good advice to try and control his northern expeditions, but was ignored.
*Zhang Ni (the Zhang Yi that wears tan instead of blue): Pol 83, Cha 86. Reason: Pol and Cha is because of his excellent handling of the southern minorities, who loved him and even built a temple in his honor when he was killed.
*Huang Zhong: Lead 90, War 95, Int 73. Reason: Shouldn't be so much weaker than the other tigers, and he fought Guan Yu evenly. Outsmarted and defeated Zhang He in the novel and led Xiahou Shang and Han Hao into a trap. Was instrumental in beating Xiahou Yuan.
*Lei Tong: Int 70. Reason: Told Zhang Fei to plan an ambush against Zhang He, which succeeded. Not too high because he then fell into Zhang He's ambush and got killed.
*Ma Chao: Int 61. Reason: Yes, I know, odd choice. But Ma Chao wasn't that stupid in the novel; he came up with some decent plans and rooted out a traitor in Shu.
*Wei Yan: Lead 85. Reason: Highly successful as a general; 81 just seemed too low.
*Guan Ping: War 85. Reason: Dueled Pang De and held up well for thirty bouts. If he wasn't fairly strong he'd have died, considering Pang De was a match for Guan Yu and Xu Chu.
*Guan Xing: Skill Pike General. Reason: A skill upgrade to help Shu in 225. Also, he was portrayed as a great warrior in the novel. Similarly;
*Zhang Bao: Skill Spear General. Reason: Same as above.
*Wu Ban: Int 71. Reason: Came up with a plan against Wu to use false defectors, which worked.
Should we also discuss the AI/troops/tech changes in this thread?