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ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:15 pm
by Bjork
ya, so I got the game for pc and use the Cao Shang patch and I pretty much know most of it from playing the PS2 version but the one thing I dont get is the options labelled R&D and App ability which are in the ruler section. I tried it out, I cant even click on App ability for some reason and I used R&D and used the one that gives me +5 ldr to all officers below 70. Then the generic official says it has begun but nothing happened to my officers stats, though I only waited like 3 turns. And I cant use it agian. So can anyone here please explain to me how these two trees work and all that good stuff cuz it seems pretty cool. Thanks =P

Update: after a few turns something before my turn hinting that the +5 bonus was done being researched or whatever it was doing.. but I check my stats and they're still the same. Ya confusing >.>

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:20 pm
by Ink Blob
I'll try and give a brief guide to the skills research and application process...

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The "skill research" is selected from [1].
From that you choose from the skill tree the skill you wish to research.
Skill research can only be performed one at a time, ranging between 3 months to 6 months depending on the type of skill.

You'll get a notice once the research in completed, example...

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Form there, you’ll notice that the icon under research skills is now available [2].

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[2] is the "apply skill" icon, where you can apply the researched skill to an officer.


Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:27 pm
by Ink Blob

Clicking that will bring about a small submenu with 3 choices.
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The first one is general stat increase (i.e. leadership, war, intelligence, politics, and charm)

The second is troop type familiarity (affecting how well the different types of unit perform in battle and what tactics are available)

The last is the “special” skill of the officer (each officer can only have a maximum of one “special” skill). Teaching an officer a special skill when they already have one will simply replace the old with the new.

Clicking on the first option for example brings about the following screen (the others will have a similar format.
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You choose which officer to train the skill with [3]

Possible skills for the officer to learn are lit up as shown by [4]
Depending on the skill restraint, some skills are available for officers but not for others. For example, the skill [4] is only available for officers with politics 70 or below, and the increased politics stat cannot exceed 70 afterwards.

An important point to mention is the amount of uses available, which is indicated by [5]. Should that run out, the skill can no longer be taught. You cannot research it again either, so consider which officers will benefit from it the most.

Once you’ve selected the officer to learn the skill, it’ll take some time for the officer to master that skill/stat increase. When the mastery is completed, you should get a message on the notice panel
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In the PUK version, there’s an added tutorial session regarding this, which you may wish to have a look at for better explanation.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:48 pm
by Bjork
wow thanks that was pretty helpful. I kinda had to figure out a lot of it already though lol
But now I got one more question. Apparently, certain slots are not filled in and you get them by I dunno how. I notice for example in war, you can either get Divine Spears, Pikes, Horse, Navy etc I think it depends on who you play as but Im not really sure. But the other ones confuse me even more.

I know once I got divine fire from int, I played as Liu Pi and had the three southern Wu cities. But when I played as Xun Yu, I didnt get it even though I filled out the tree. Also, I notice other forces have varying ones. For example, sometimes from the war tree you can get Zhang Fei's ability for both Pike and Spear crits but other times you get surround(Cheng Yu's and Chen Gong's) which sucks =/. So if there is any guide or anyone knows how you get which particular one, that would be pretty helpful.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:03 pm
by Ink Blob
There are some "hidden" research skills within the tree that open up when a particular skill/skills have been researched. The
prerequisite for each hidden skills are fixed (and so their location within the tree is fixed).

However, what makes it perhaps unreliable is that whether or not these skills appear or not happens partly by chance. So going through the same "research route" in two different games can have different hidden skills appearing.

What makes it even more difficult is that some of the hidden skills locations overlap. That is to say that "hidden skill A" and "hidden skill B" can appear on the same location, so in a single game, you can only acquire skill A, skill B or neither, but not both. Skill A and B usually have similar prerequisite (though usually B will require an extra skill to be researched before appearing).

I'll have a look at my saved and try to list some of the prerequisite for the hidden skills, and update you on that. Though bear in mind the hidden skills are dependent on chance. So my list will probably not cover all the hidden skills, nor will the skills necessarily appear on a game even if the prerequisites are met.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:44 pm
by Bjork
hmm if they're dependent on chance that sucks lol
I actually went through most of my tree as Xun Yu and got like only 1 hidden skill.
Though I have a feeling there are things that determine it as well, because certain forces have certain skills that make more sense for them to have. Like Wu gets Zhou Yu'sa ability and Navy, while Liu Bei gets Pang Tong's. All the cavalry forces get Ma Chao's ability in the war section . Maybe each force has a predermined skill set depending on the ruler.

Though the thing Im worried about most is that I didnt get any skills where I should have. Like in my game all the forces completed the int tree and Im the only one who didnt get a cool ability in the middle of like Divine Fire, Cunning, or something else. Nor did I get any from the pol tree like agriculture. Hmm its weird >.>

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:07 am
by Ink Blob
Thanks for bringing that up Bjork, I'll take that into account...
Unfortunately, I'm not able to make much progress with that at the moment.

Academic work is eating up most of my time, and what's left in free time is spent waiting for each skill to be researched. I'll keep working on this whenever I can, but don't expect an update anytime soon. :cry:

In the mean time, you could try asking around if you're particularly interested in this. There are a lot of experienced players here, and they may have their own theories and research behind those "hidden" skills.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:54 am
by Bjork
yaa I actually looked into it somewhat. I notice for example, that there is definatly a predetermination to it. For example, if I play as Liu Biao in 187, and get the first two int ones, I always get reverse(likely because whatever in game pre-requisites are meant for reverse I already have) and similarly I notice other such things. For example if I save a game and then reload I end up getting the same skill. Also, the computers tend to get the same ones. I notice Gongsun Zans computer often gets Best Adv and Pang Xi often gets War All and other things like that. I think there are in game conditions but its very hard to pinpoint them. Though it would be awesome if it were figured out and a guide was made cuz then you can basically plan out your force's play style and development and specialize. I remember for example, when I played as horse forces and got the Navy skill in the war tree I was like wtf am I gonna do with that.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:40 pm
by Ink Blob analysis seem to show the opposite.
So far I've stuck to playing Sun Jian's force in the fictional scenario, going to the same general research path. I've been getting different hidden skills in my cycles, and so I'm getting the impression that it's random. I'll run a few more cycles for now to see, and later I'll try out other scenarios and forces.

Admittedly, while R&D is potentially very powerful, I personally don't use it much beyond acquiring the production skills. That might just be individual playing style though. I focus heavily on production and so my tactics tend to be overwhelming by sheer numbers rather than individual abilities. I see your point about the forward planning and development, but it just requires too much planning for simpletons like me to use properly

About the point of your cavalry based force getting naval skills, isn't that very useful to have as a secondary officer skill? Cavalry officers tend to be lacking in naval skills, and so having a secondary officer within the unit that has naval skill can help whenever you need to cross the water.

Re: ROTKXI PUK R&D and App ability trees

Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:10 pm
by blightmoon
I've been trying to figure out how the unlocking works too.. I'm not sure if it's by chance or dependent on the order/combination of R&D researched and not researched, ruler, city, season, etc. I have however been able to unlock Recruit (my favorite skill--love it with pikes :D ) with 3 rulers on 2 different scenarios.

Anyway, to kind of help discover how R&D works exactly, here are some of the series of R&D paths that have unlocked hidden skills which I have discovered so far. They come from the various rulers and I recorded all their paths, so some may be shorter than others. The path shows the skills in the order I researched them.

1. War 1 > Bow B > Spear B > Siege B > Cav B > Lead 1 > Recruit (Unlocked and Researched; Lu Meng's Skill; 5P, btw so it really rocks!) > Pike B > Nav B > Pike A > Nav A > Assist > Undaunt > Hard > Lead 2 (Note: Paveway Unlocked after this, but I didn't research it immediately) > All Unit > Lead 3 (Note: No Skill Unlocked) > War 3 > Paveway > Bow A > Range > Spear A > War Siege (Unlocked; Sun Ce's Skill; 5P as well) > End

Note: Recruit appears in the space between Spear B and Cav B. War Siege appears in the space between Spear A and War 3.

2. Int 1 > Pol 1 > Cha 1 > Oppress > Cha 2 > Cha 3 > Build > Transit > Pol 2 > Ship > Invest > Amiable (Unlocked and Researched; Wu Guotai's Skill) > Pol > END

3. Int 1 > War 1 > Bow B > Spear B > Siege B > Cav B > Range > Siege A > Cav A > Lead 1 > Escape > Pike B > Nav B > War 2 > Bow A > Spear A > Twice > SprPike (Unlocked and Researched; Zhang Fei's Skill) > Navy (Unlocked and Researched; Zhou Tai's Skill) > War 3 > Pike A > END

Note: SprPike appears in the space between Spear A and War 3. Navy appears in the space between Spear B and Cav B.

4. Pol 1 > Build > Transit > Pol 2 > Ship > Invest > Pol 3 > Breed > Tax (Unlocked and Researched; Dong Zhuo's Skill) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing]

5. Pol 1 > Build > Transit > Pol 2 > Ship > Invest > Pol 3 > Agri (Unlocked and Researched; Zhang Lu's Skill) > Breed > HiTech > Lead 1 > Int 1 > Cha 1 > Oppress > Cha 2 > Cha 3 > Ambush > Reverse (Unlocked and Researched; Jia Xu's Skill) > Sweep > Int 2 > END

Love this one..
6. Int 1 > Ambush > Sweep > Int 2 > Pol 1 > Cha 1 > Oppress > Lucid > Cunning (Unlocked and Researched; Lu Xun/Guo Jia's Skill) > All Crit > Best (Unlocked and Researched; Zhuge Liang's Skill) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing] > END

7. War 1 > Siege B > Bow B > Spear B > Cav B > Range > Siege A > Caval (Unlocked and Researched; Ma Chao's Skill) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing] > END

8. Lead 1 > Undaunt > War 1 > Pike B > Hard > Fast Cav (Unlocked, but NOT researched; Han Sui's Skill) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing] > END

9. Lead 1 > Undaunt > Hard > Fast Cav > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing] > END

10. Int 1 > Ambush > Sweep > Int 2 > Pol 1 > Cha1 > Every (Unlocked and Researched; Pang Tong's Skill) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing] > END

The next one was done by 2 rulers on the same scenario
11. War 1 > Bow B > Spear B > Siege B > Cav B > Recruit (Unlocked and Researched) > [a long train of R&Ds that unlocked nothing for both rulers] > END

The next one's what many of you guys must be dying to look for..
12. Lead 1 > War 1 > Pike B > Nav B > Pike A > Nav A > Assist > Undaunt > Hard > Lead 2 > All Unit > Lead 3 > Fly Gen (Lu Bu's Skill; not sure if 3P or 5P, but definitely not 1P)

Fly Gen unlocks in the space between All Unit and Lead 3.

Apparently, the AI tends to research R&D that unlocks skills. I omitted some train of the R&Ds that did not unlock something until I destroyed that kingdom, to save space in this post. Also, I do have a record of the seasons I started researching them, but that one's some 90% reliable only, because I often forget to check Forces R&D just before each season ends.

I have also found FireCrt (Zhou Yu) where Every or Reverse is unlocked. Escape is way too common and useless to even post here. Rattan (1/2 Physical Dmg taken, 2x Fire Dmg taken)... sigh.. I've unlocked this once, but didn't record and I completely forgot how to get it. This unlocks where Fly Gen and Land Esc also unlocks. I've dreamt of unlocking Recruit, FireCrt and Rattan--an energizer bunny, LOL. :mrgreen:

Another observation.. Hard and Extend are pretty much useless. Hard worked only once for me and only against an archer tower and Extend (Sun Jian) seems to actually NEVER work..

Anyway, I hope this helps.