RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Koei’s Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series—discuss it here.

Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Jordan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:11 pm

I had a fun game a while back as a created character named Yuan Ling, a daughter of Yuan Shao, she had terrible abilities in everything, low War, decent Int, low Pol, average Charisma. The scenario was the Coalition against Dong Zhuo scenario, because of who she served she managed to coast by as her family was lead to success after success, with her skills slightly improving with time, though her stats were mostly increased through money, then around 204, after conquering nearly half of the country Yuan Shao died and chose Yuan Shang as heir, as my character was supposed to be fairly capricious she rebelled and was able to seize a province along with her, but this destablization only heartened the enemy (who was Cao Cao, having defeated Ma Teng in a surprising turn earlier and expanding to the West) who managed to reverse a lot of Yuan Shao's holdings and though she was able to rebel, I couldn't get any useful officers to join with her.

So Yuan Shang quickly set about reducing Yuan Ling's lands quickly and within a year managed to conquer her, executing the majority of the rebels, but he invited his sister back into the fold. Left without much choice she rejoined.

At this time Yuan Shang was losing more and more land and was eventually executed by Cao Cao. Yuan Tan became the ruler then, I chose not to rebel this time. Yuan Tan had an impressive start. He executed a fair amount of the Cao Clan (though obviously couldn't get Cao Cao, at least not as I recall, but I do recall him dying earlier than usual.) Though his efforts were soon reversed and what seemed like a sure victory of 2/3 of the land was pushed back to only 1/2 and that is when Yuan Tan died I want to say around 215 or 16, then Yuan Xi became ruler, but he only lasted for a couple of years before he too fell to illness, though I recall the time that he ruled as exceptionally peaceful between the two remaining kingdoms. Then the burden fell to Yuan Ling to become ruler as the last surviving Yuan. Cao Cao had died and because so much of his family had already been killed Xiahou Shang or all people became ruler, with a surprisingly impressive stat build, surely he was doing some training during this prolonged scenario.

So the fight began anew and though it was very slow Yuan Ling pushed forward, executing everyone that wouldn't serve her, along the way she came across Xiahou De who was a surprising thorn in the side for a while because of his immense stat bonuses from the scenario's start. As I recall he had several 90's in his stats! Xiahou De of all people! Eventually though we managed to beat him back, captured him, and executed him. The years were getting on, and Yuan Ling had focused much of her attention on Charisma training while the Empire slowly came under her control. It was around 250 when Xiahou Shang died, leaving Sima Yi, strangely enough, to become the ruler of Wei, now comprising of Wu's territory, but the way the game work with Hui Ji and Wu, oy... no matter how many auto-battles were launched against it, there was no getting through there and I knew time was running out for Yuan Ling. Through an extremely hard fought battle in 254 where Yuan Ling personally took part (she acquired a good amount of bow skills through her life) we finally managed to seize Wu, but a month later Yuan Ling passed away...

I was not going to have that! I was not going to have the game do this to me after I fought with relative tenacity against a ticking time-bomb. So I reloaded and this time attacked Hui Ji immediately and though it took several tries, I finally won with a... I believe she was 16 in 192 so she would have been... 76 at the game's end, and her ending was expectedly bad, having killed everyone that got in her way.

It was a grand game though, a lot of fun to be had.


A great story Xu Yuan. It brings up many interesting aspects of ROTK VIII:

-Rebellions are pretty hard to accomplish in this game. I have a feeling that this aspect of the game is deliberate. It's very tough to get a decent amount of officers to rally behind you if you're a rebel, even if you're a pretty prominent viceroy. I thought that maybe social relations played a role in rebellions but I've frequently had officers who were "loyal" to me that did not follow me in a coup d'etat. Your story with Yuan Ling rebelling early on and currying very little support doesn't surprise me too much because I've been down that road. Oh, you also incur a lot of badboy points from rebelling, which affects how other officers deal with you/the ending/etc.

-Some cities are really hard to take due to the way "reinforcements" work. This is deliberate. The triangle of Chengdu/Ba/Fu, the two cities of Wu/Hui Ji and finally Bei Ping/Liaodong in the North can sometimes become really tough hold out cities. Interestingly, these cities may be the best cities to start a rebellion in though because of how easy they are to defend.

-In every game I play, I'll always encounter a "Xiahou De" or several. There's always some obscure, unknown officers who manage to train their ass off and by late game become a much bigger challenge than they deserve to be. I'll look at their stats, scratch my head and wonder if those officers did something amazing historically that I was unaware of. I really like this aspect of ROTK though. It basically is a result of ROTK VIII having many officers with low base stats but high stat caps, which is one of my favorite aspects of the game.

-It can be very hard to win a game in one officer's lifetime and very frustrating when it can't be done. I remember playing a game as Kong Rong in which I got about 4/5 of China unified under my glorious pink banners before Kong Rong died and I had to continue the game as his oath brother. But that wasn't much fun. I wanted a terribly mismanaged Empire under Kong Rong!

So what made you think of playing a game as a custom created daughter of Yuan Shao? That seems like an interesting premise to me. I like how you roleplayed it out as well and also made her a rather ruthless figure. I also like how nearly all the major Yuans died and you eventually became ruler, even though you had revolted against the regime once before.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:30 am

The most frustrating thing to ever happen to me on this game was whilst playing the YT scenario.

I was playing as Sun Fin a Han loyalist and we killed Zhang Jiao early on, Zhang Liang took over control of the rogue faction, but before long we captured him and he surrendered. Yet before all of China was bought under He Jin's less than capable rule Jin died and guess who replaced him? Yeah, Zhang Liang. Needless to say Fin and several other prefects rebelled and I managed to move around until Zhang Liang's death when Yuan Shao took over at which point I was willing to surrender.

But seriously, why does the game hand control of the Han faction over to former YT officers?
Last edited by Sun Fin on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Jordan » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:02 pm

But seriously, why does the game hand control of the Han faction over to former YT officers?


I reckon it has to do with an officer's ranking. Zhang Liang was probably a 3rd, 2nd or 1st ranked officer (you can tell by how many troops he could command). Fame/deeds might also play some role in non-familial succession.

I agree it is absolutely ridiculous when stuff like this happens though. In ROTK VII, I remember He Jin' died and was succeeded by Zhang Rang, the leader of the eunuchs, during one of my playthroughs.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:35 pm

Jordan wrote:A great story Xu Yuan. It brings up many interesting aspects of ROTK VIII:

-Rebellions are pretty hard to accomplish in this game. I have a feeling that this aspect of the game is deliberate. It's very tough to get a decent amount of officers to rally behind you if you're a rebel, even if you're a pretty prominent viceroy. I thought that maybe social relations played a role in rebellions but I've frequently had officers who were "loyal" to me that did not follow me in a coup d'etat. Your story with Yuan Ling rebelling early on and currying very little support doesn't surprise me too much because I've been down that road. Oh, you also incur a lot of badboy points from rebelling, which affects how other officers deal with you/the ending/etc.

-Some cities are really hard to take due to the way "reinforcements" work. This is deliberate. The triangle of Chengdu/Ba/Fu, the two cities of Wu/Hui Ji and finally Bei Ping/Liaodong in the North can sometimes become really tough hold out cities. Interestingly, these cities may be the best cities to start a rebellion in though because of how easy they are to defend.

-In every game I play, I'll always encounter a "Xiahou De" or several. There's always some obscure, unknown officers who manage to train their ass off and by late game become a much bigger challenge than they deserve to be. I'll look at their stats, scratch my head and wonder if those officers did something amazing historically that I was unaware of. I really like this aspect of ROTK though. It basically is a result of ROTK VIII having many officers with low base stats but high stat caps, which is one of my favorite aspects of the game.

-It can be very hard to win a game in one officer's lifetime and very frustrating when it can't be done. I remember playing a game as Kong Rong in which I got about 4/5 of China unified under my glorious pink banners before Kong Rong died and I had to continue the game as his oath brother. But that wasn't much fun. I wanted a terribly mismanaged Empire under Kong Rong!

So what made you think of playing a game as a custom created daughter of Yuan Shao? That seems like an interesting premise to me. I like how you roleplayed it out as well and also made her a rather ruthless figure. I also like how nearly all the major Yuans died and you eventually became ruler, even though you had revolted against the regime once before.



Hmm, I did not know that rebellions were quite difficult to pull off. I had thought it revolved around family/friends/personal Charisma but I guess it's more fickle than that. It would make good sense to start a rebellion in those chokehold points you just mentioned. Though yes on second look it does seem deliberate in order to mimic how difficult attacking those places would be in normal circumstances.

Though I do love that about RTKVIII more so than the other RTK's is that other officers will grow and gain skills simply by their own volition without the player being involved at all. It sets it up so unexpected rivals may appear that the player couldn't have imagined. And as you said it also shows that the officers have more potential than history would show which is something the RTK games don't often take into account.

Yes, winning a game of RTKVIII within one lifetime can be very tricky, though much of what kept us from winning sooner was Yuan Ling's "hands off" approach. As her character was mostly spent raising Cha and letting the Empire run itself. It did very well for itself for the most part, but no doubt a bit more firm directions would have ended things a little sooner. Also she was a young Created Character at only 16 so the game spanned 60 years as memory serves, by the way is there anything that depends the longevity of created characters? It sometimes seems so random. A prominent created character can sometimes just drop dead at 40, I don't think RTKVIII had death dates included for created characters as they would in future games.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the story and idea. I thought that Yuan Ling would be a daughter who would be loyal to her father through life, but was as capricious and uncaring as her mother (Lady Liu and the awful way she treated people) and as temperamental as her father could be. And though she lacked the ability she felt the Empire should have been hers, putting very little faith in her brothers to manage affairs after her father passed away. Left without choice and realizing her actions were only weakening her father's once great kingdom she realized she needed to cooperate with her brothers if they were to stem the tide against them. As a ruler she was cold, uncaring, and unattentive. She would slay any captured officers, regardless of rank or relation.

I'm still surprised I managed to win the game after all of this time, hehe.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:13 pm

The biggest challenge for me was to help Cao Cao conquer China with Xi Zhicai who has by far the shortest life span in the game. Guan Luo added 10 years but I also had to make sure that I remain the main strategist in order to control all the troops which means I had to fight battles without Guo Jia, Sima Yi and Jia Xu and their extremely useful Sage skill untill I got my int to 100.
Meng Huo's conquest was fun as. For some reason the AI was determined to attack San Jiang only and not the second territory. Once I figured this out I simply harassed Zhuge Liang 5 times a turn until he ran out of supplies and then :twisted:
Winning game with yellow turbans was easy as because of numbers and Zhang Jiao is the very best character in the game after all. Had to hurry though as he doesn't live too long as well and I didn't even bother trying to get help from Guan Luo considering infamy.
Basically if you have numbers and medicine skill, you can't lose in the game even if you generals are weaker in stats. Liu Bao's 18500 (could never understand why he joins the game being highest class) can and will overcome Lu Bu's 5000. The main thing is not to use tactics but simply heal yourself and damage with counterattacks.
If you don't have numbers then starving the AI is a way to go. Attack with 30K against 100K and simply hang around your camp for 30 days. I usually use these day to raise the INT by dousing blazes. Does absolute wonders in terms of stat gain although injuries nearly always happen. Repeat with the next 2-3 generals. Then again. Once the AI has no supplies bring your best generals and wait at the camp. If you make the snow fall they may not even reach you :lol: .Works beautifully against Yuan Shao who always has enormous army.
The favourite battle tactic is Harass as it's cheapest and most effective. 3 turns of confusion and no retaliation as well as taking double damage is sweet :D And it works on plains good enough. If I feel like Trampling or Berserking then I'd still Harass first for the massive damage after.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby VolpieDash » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Xiahou Jia wrote:T
Winning game with yellow turbans was easy as because of numbers and Zhang Jiao is the very best character in the game after all.


I never thought Zhang Jiao was particularly the best, his almost immediate death and high infamy rating don't help.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:57 pm

Liu Bao's 18500 (could never understand why he joins the game being highest class)


Liu Bao was one of the chieftains of the Xiongnu assuming I'm thinking of the right historical figure. He was the father of Liu Yuan (Liu Yuan created his own dynasty and played a role in the downfall of Western Jin). Given that he was a chieftain in control of at least one large division of the Xiongnu, if not with hegemony over most of the tribe, it sort of makes sense that he'd be able to command a lot of soldiers.

Sometimes it's kind of odd seeing figures like Dong Cheng being able to command absurd numbers of troops, but generally the rankings make sense. The rankings also help balance the game a little bit so that a great officer like Ding Feng is held back a bit by his low status while an otherwise mediocre officer like Li Jue or the aforementioned Dong Cheng start out great because of their good rank. I like the system.

I agree that Medicine is a godly skill. You can easily heal several thousand troops a turn which is usually more worthwhile than any other possible action you can perform. However Medicine is not as imbalanced as sage which is just completely broken. So long as the weather is cloudy and the rng doesn't screw you over, sage is practically an auto-win unless you are vastly vastly outnumbered (and even then it might work).
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Medicine heals about 50% of soldiers lost after attack or trap. It pretty much doubles your original army as 50 % of the "resurrected" soldiers can be rehealed indefinitly again. Typical example is if you have 20k and go all the way down to 1k then you can get about 10k back once you hit the bottom thousand you can resurrect another 5k. The third time you go down to a thousand another 2.5k are ready to come back. That's 37.5K army made out of original 20...not bad. Since the damage is determined by the combo of moral/war stat/troop type and numbers it makes sense to have a healer for your Lu Bu or Zhang Fei and keep numbers at maximum every battle turn.
Lightning damage however is irreversible but the AI never uses it anyway and I believe a player should not waste time on this funny gamble called Genius.
In case of injured by Blazes it heals all the troops injured if used the same turn, doesn't apply to fire traps though. And it gives 0.1 increase in INT regardless of the amount of soldiers healed so I use it for stat gain purposes instead of wasting months on training. Not as good as dousing Blazes though.

Ok I just replayed with Zhang Jiao again and as stated before didn't encounter any problems except for boredom in occupying empty territories once He Jin was wiped out. Advanced difficulty, no simulation battles, controlling Zhang Jiao only. Unless mentioned I used all of the officers in all attacks and abandoned the cities in order to make use of numbers. The luck factor was pretty much totally removed as you will see later. The only thing that I definitely used to my advantage was the knowledge of the starting numbers in the cities that are always fixed on the first turn. However starting from February I visited the towns in person in the season times instead of wasting the strategy turns on spying so I was well aware of the numbers and no luck was involved as the AI increases numbers in summer only, unless it defeats an opponent, rich on money or defeat bandits. the hidden officers also remain hidden for quite some time unless you discover them for the AI :lol: So I did not observe any facilities in order to avoid Lu Bu's gang and few others getting into the fight. Not a single ploy was executed against or tried against any of my officers so defection wasn't an issue. In all battles the reinforcements were dealt with first then the main army.

Jan184

1.Guan Hai and all his generals advance from Ji Nan to Bei Hai.
2. Attacking Tao Qian with Zhang Kai only but requesting the reinforcements from Bei Hai. Waited for the allies to deal with Tao Qian and Zang Ba. Zang Ba hired. Tao Qian executed.
3.First real battle. Sort of :lol: Attacking Chen Liu with all of the Xiao Pei generals, with the help of Ye troops. Don't do anything until Zhang Jiao himself arrives.Yuan Shao annoys the hell out of me with his Harrass but Zhang Jiao's INT is unmatched. Medicine helps a bit as well. All captured officers are executed: Huangfu Song, Yuan Shao, Wang Kuang, Chen Lin, Dong Cheng, Kong Rong, Zhang Miao, Liu Dai, Bao Zhong.
4. Zhang Yan advances with his army into Bo Hai. Again wait for Zhang Jiao's personal interferrence along with Deng Mao and Cheng Yuan Zhi. Much better opposition in terms of generals but in terms of numbers it was 101K vs 22k :lol: Zhang Fei was most annoying with his Scare a bit and even manage to escape behind the castle walls. Had to take the castle down and captured him when he tried to flee. Zhang He was hired others executed: Lu Zhi, Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, Han Fu, Zou Jing and Guan Yu.
5. At this stage the dilemma was whether to try taking down Dong Zhuo who holed up pretty good in Shang Dang with a 1600 wall or take a gamble and engage the only capable army of Cao Cao, Sun Jian and Cheng Pu as Zhang Bao didn't have neither Zhang Jiao as reinforcements nor massive numbers. The fact that Zhang Bao might mess my grand strategy by attacking on his own also troubled me as well as Yu Fuluo with decent numbers and a loyalty of 85 only. The final decision was to transport all the troops from him to Zhang Bao.
6. Occupied Ru Nan with Qiao army.

First thing to do in town is getting a medicine skill for Zhang Bao so I paid a visit to Luo Yang market. Then gave a book to Zhang Bao. Scouted all the towns in person by visiting them and spend the rest of the time trying to pillage Dong Zhuo.

Apr184

1.Finally a showdown. Zhang Bao with 63500 vs Wan Army 0f 22k. Cao Cao was consistently harassing me but I simply ignored those confused and didn't even try to calm them and but kept healing them. Sun Jian also was taking only 600 damage for some reason. Countered all the forest traps with Zhang Bao's weather skill :D After the battle tried to recruit Cao Cao but he refused...pity...had to execute as well as Sun Jing, Yuan Yi, Yuan Shu, Sun Jian, Cheng Pu.
2. Bo Hai army simply enters Ji as there are no troops to fight...the very reason I prioritize destroying reinforcements first in most battles.
3. Luo Yang has only 300 soldiers left. Dilemma again. Should I organize an archer army to deal with the hu lao gate or will the AI abandon the city? Decided to go with my usual all infantry line. The AI flees. Emperor Ling declares the end of Han although...well the irony will happen later. Luo Yang is under control of Zhang Liang's army previously stationed in Chen Liu.

Made sure supplies would be sufficient for the frontlines then disbanded Zhang Bao's region and gave him and Zhang Liang domestic orders.

Scouting and pillaging in 3 months.

Jul 184.
He Jin is pretty much finished. Long Live the yellow turbans! And the factory provided me with brand new catapults right in time.
1. Zhang Bao's finishes the encirclement by taking Chang An. 56K versus 1500 :lol: 2 shots from a catapult and both Liu Biao and Zhang Wen join the rest of the Han loyalists after the battle.
2. Now it's finally time to take down Dong Zhuo who annoyed me since the very start by hiding behind the walls. Zhang Liang, Han Zhong and Sun Zhong advance from Luo Yang. Zhang Jiao reinforces with Ye army. 102k versus 27.3k...not a chance...
3. After the previous battle the garrison of Jin Yang is...100 brave soldiers only. Liu Yan decides to take a stand. For the first time a decided not to overkill (too much :) ) and sent Zhang He and Zhang Yan only with no reinforcements.still that was 23500 vs 100. Zhange He's Run skill sped things up. Both Liu Yan and Liu Zhang are executed.
4. Last battle. Zhao Hong who was left in charge of Luo Yang advances west. 1976 soldiers only and a single general. Versus 1000 led by Zhu Jun who has managed to survive many others somehow. Sound fair...but...the strength in numbers is the Way of the Yellow Turbans so Zhang Bao and Liao Hua joined in after the 5 days :twisted: Everyone except Xun You and Jin Xuan were executed after the battle.

JUL184 HE JIN FORCE DEMOLISHED

And now starts the boring part in taking the empty provinces. Apr 186 now and only Ba is left, the rest is mine. As far as I remember Zhang Jiao dies around 188-190 so I might try pay off my infamy :lol: Maybe even get on good terms with Guan Lu quit my empire, organize a band and try to reconquer Han (yep, ironically ridiculous it was renamed Han in Oct185) again.
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Ding Feng » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:03 am

This game never fails to entertain me.

So, I start out around the year 228 as Zhao Yun, who is around 60 years old at the time. I start the game thinking he's likely to die rather soon after I start, since he dies a year later, historically. He has two sons, Tong and Guang, to succeed him and I wanted the challenge to try and make one of them up to par to their father's stats. I just wanted a little bit of time to teach them tactics and see which panned out better.

Well, Zhao Yun stuck around a lot longer than I thought. He didn't die until around 245 when he was 77 years old. He lived a good 17 years longer than I expected him to and I collected a lot of items, as I had become viceroy of Chang An and consistently kept Wei at bay.

I decided I'd go with the elder son, Zhao Tong, to be his successor. He had learned more tactics and I thought maybe he'd live longer, since Guang dies in battle serving Jiang Wei, while I couldn't find any mentioning on Tong's death.

When I took over as Zhao Tong, I did pretty good with him, got his stats up and learned many tactics. I was prefect of Han Zhong and held onto it for the rest of his life. (245-265)

I was concerned as time went by as I had the feeling he wasn't going to live as long as his father had, so I started talking to the most skilled person in the city, who happened to be Sima Yan. Their personalities hardly meshed but Sima Yan was very young and talented, so for years I gave him gifts I had collected from the generous farmers, who gave them freely just about any turn once you gain their trust. After many years of bribing and stuffing his face with banquets, I finally obtained him as an oath brother.

I wanted a successor because Wu and Wei, in particular, were battling very ferociously, and it was entertaining watching it unfold. Wei almost destroyed Wu early on, then Wu rebounded and evened the land back up to what it originally was. When Sun Quan died and Sun He took over, he won a good 15 battles in a row against Wei and nearly destroyed them, only for Wei to rebound and even it out once again. It was a really crazy tug of war.

I knew Zhao Tong's end could possibly be near because around 263, his younger brother had passed away. I was glad I at least have a successor, even if it was someone who personally, wasn't exactly a good match. I just wanted to continue playing at any cost.

Funny thing is, since you can create 100 officers in this game, I had spent time a while in the past making characters and I found out in the start of 264, Zhao Tong just happened to have a created character daughter! It was a nice surprise. I had completely forgotten about making her. All that bribing and food stuffing of Sima Yan had turned out to be completely unnecessary!

Zhao Tong, indeed, died a year later and now I've taken over as his daughter, who naturally had great stats in war and charisma. I had passed on a lot of items and tactics to her too. I had a brand new, skilled, and very young character to play as and see how things would go!

Sun He finally destroyed Wei around 274 and then a stalemate with Shu began. He gained a couple territories but no more. I got to use my new officer to give them a nice dosage of pain!

Now, it's in the 280's and after Sun He passed away, Sun Hao succeeded him and a good 4-5 of his prefects established their own force. They immediately formed an anti Sun Hao coalition, which Shu has joined. We're all destroying Wu pretty easily now, with Shu getting the majority of the land. It's all a little too convenient.




TL;DR - I just love how damn random this game is. It's priceless!
"Know thy enemy and know thy self, find naught to fear in 100 battles. Know not thy enemy, but know thy self, find victory and defeat in equal measure. Know thy enemy, but know not thy self, find defeat in every battle." -Sun Tzu
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Re: RTK VIII Discussion Thread

Unread postby Xia Kyoto » Fri May 08, 2015 5:47 am

Jordan wrote:
But seriously, why does the game hand control of the Han faction over to former YT officers?


I reckon it has to do with an officer's ranking. Zhang Liang was probably a 3rd, 2nd or 1st ranked officer (you can tell by how many troops he could command). Fame/deeds might also play some role in non-familial succession.

I agree it is absolutely ridiculous when stuff like this happens though. In ROTK VII, I remember He Jin' died and was succeeded by Zhang Rang, the leader of the eunuchs, during one of my playthroughs.


To avoid all of this, I simply create a son of He Jin named He Kang with a General build of high War and Chr. I do this for all of my RTK games.

----

I can never get into this game because of the battle system. Just the way the units move is so raggedy and strangely Courage the Cowardly Dog obscurity esc on par. It's like the hash-slinging-slasher galloping everywhere on top of a board game. So hard to get into.
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