Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 am

Valvatorez wrote:About the 100 days of food, I actually didn't know that, I knew sometimes the cities that have a lot of ground to cover have people run out of food on the way, but didn't know they always bring the same food no matter what, and does seem easy to exploit too just by moving the unit out of the way back to your territory every other turn.


Surprisingly, that doesn't quite work all the time, although I'm sure it was accidental on Koei's part. :lol:

When those units get deployed, they are given a target. Sometimes they won't chase after that, and sometimes they will. My memory is a bit rusty. Plus when the AI deploys units, some are set to attack while others are set to subjugate (and you can't check the enemies), so the ones set to subjugate will also freely target nearby stuff. That actually is also why build units will start attacking neighboring city facilities for no reason...

That said, if you set up a camp right on the outskirts of the target city, you can wait there while the units march to you and take them out. Usually the defensive units are just slapped together sub-optimally so are easier to pick off.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:30 am

Valvatorez wrote:Ah, thanks for the reply. The Xia Pi-Wu route is something I wanted to get rid of, so was hoping that there was something somewhere to change. Isn't there something that has each tile listed somewhere? I was thinking maybe I could try to block that route off that way or open up other paths like near Zi Tong and make areas passable instead of being mountains or something.
About Ye and Nan Pi though, the AI usually doesn't attack from one of those to the other though is what I meant, at least I don't really remember it doing so but could be wrong.

I think the AI takes any route to a city as long as it is accessible enough and doesn't take too much time to take. That's why we see attacks on cities that are not "directly" connected to the city (via road for example), such as Wu - Xiapi or even Chang'an - Tianshui or Chenliu - Shouchun (which don't have a direct route between them, but are accessible enough).
You can notice that behaviour if you fill your territory with defensive structures. I once did that as Cao Cao in Rival Warlords, building defensive structures anywhere I could in Chenliu. Eventually, AI Yuan Shu redirected his attacks on Chenliu from Shouchun to Runan, Xuchang and then Chenliu. Huge detour, but due to the roads you won't lose that much food as if you're going to attack Jingzhou from Nanzhong, which is why the AI doesn't take these routes usually.

In the PUK 187 when I played Cao Cao and occupied Ye (which is free in that scenario), I was notified that Zhang Yan in Nanpi was sending troops to attack Ye. Problem was that Kong Rong in Pingyuan immediately sent troops to defend when Zhang Yan's forces entered his territory. So the AI does attack Ye from Nanpi, it's just that Pingyuan is in the way usually.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Valvatorez » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:52 pm

foosoomin wrote:I just remake them at different officer slots, because they are not playable via their original position

Example Huang Chengyan is moved to different slots, his daughter Huang Yueying, i changed her "like" Huang Chengyan officer position to the new one too.


Ah I see, I did the same thing too with the named npcs like the emperors and most of the ones you named and had them moved into the 100 extra slots in the save files after the custom officers are listed, except you won't get bandits or tribes attacking anymore if you use all those slots :lol:

Zyzyfer wrote:
Surprisingly, that doesn't quite work all the time, although I'm sure it was accidental on Koei's part. :lol:

When those units get deployed, they are given a target. Sometimes they won't chase after that, and sometimes they will. My memory is a bit rusty. Plus when the AI deploys units, some are set to attack while others are set to subjugate (and you can't check the enemies), so the ones set to subjugate will also freely target nearby stuff. That actually is also why build units will start attacking neighboring city facilities for no reason...


Of course :lol: This happens a lot to me when having Chang An, usually whoever has An Ding sends someone out to build something, then they end up sneaking in to light my markets on fire and I don't notice until its destroyed. (looks over for Li Ru hiding somewhere) :rangry:

Lord_Cao_Cao wrote:I think the AI takes any route to a city as long as it is accessible enough and doesn't take too much time to take. That's why we see attacks on cities that are not "directly" connected to the city (via road for example), such as Wu - Xiapi or even Chang'an - Tianshui or Chenliu - Shouchun (which don't have a direct route between them, but are accessible enough).
You can notice that behaviour if you fill your territory with defensive structures. I once did that as Cao Cao in Rival Warlords, building defensive structures anywhere I could in Chenliu. Eventually, AI Yuan Shu redirected his attacks on Chenliu from Shouchun to Runan, Xuchang and then Chenliu. Huge detour, but due to the roads you won't lose that much food as if you're going to attack Jingzhou from Nanzhong, which is why the AI doesn't take these routes usually.


Yeah you're right, I just wish there was some way to change some of the dumb AI behavior or make things more difficult, so they wouldn't do things like overload ports, attack from cities that are so far away it doesn't make sense, or have a district that likes to march everyone out to get stuck in mountain trails. I did once build camps, band platforms and everything else I could all over Chang An to the west and when the enemy marched out of Tian Shui to attack me, they had them go north through An Ding to try to get there, problem was the An Ding force wouldn't let them through, kept attacking them for me, then called 2 month ceasefires that kept running out with them before they got into my territory so they kept retreating and never actually made it close to my city, then the force in Han Zhong just casually marched into Tian Shui after about 2 years of this mess and took them out instead.
Since both of you moved on to XIII is the AI any better, or still makes weird choices?
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:54 pm

I haven't played XIII for ages, so I can't say much about the AI there (that's also why I haven't posted much lately).
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:51 am

Valvatorez wrote:Since both of you moved on to XIII is the AI any better, or still makes weird choices?


XIII's AI has the appearance of performing better in a superficial sense, because there are fewer options available to it, if that makes any sense. There is only going to be one path between two given cities. Most of the battles use a pool of generic maps. Battles themselves are quite simplistic.

But once you start manipulating the AI a bit, its weaknesses become readily apparent. It can't deal with attacks on multiple fronts. It's not very good at maintaining a balance of supplies. You can station 1000 troops to sit right at one of your border cities and enemy cities will often panic and deploy everything they can in anticipation of an attack from you. Hell, you can even neutralize coalitions by just leaving your troops stationed on your border cities.

That's why I tell people who haven't gotten the game yet to see what happens with the PUK. Because the vanilla game is pretty..."incomplete".
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Valvatorez » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:24 am

Hmm, it actually does make sense since apparently there's less to screw up? Like I said in the other thread, I didn't play enough of the game to actually get a good feel of it, but the way you describe it sounds like the NA Sphere of Influence games, as all cities are connected by set roads so you have to go a certain way to get to a city/castle unlike XI, and the AI starts panicking whenever you march out anyone and have them sit in the roads at forts even if your unit doesn't move or attack them, and its kinda easy to trap them so they are stuck between some of your units in between the set roads, while others go after the city. The battles too seem similar to what you said. Although I do enjoy those games, especially Ascension.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:16 am

Yeah.

On the bright side, as long as you organize the parties well, auto-resolved battles between your and enemy AI forces fortunately play out more or less as they should, since it's back to bare bones number-crunching. I never feel like I have to babysit other fronts too much, just get them all to gather in a group first and then start them marching. City development is also pretty much foolproof for the AI.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby foosoomin » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:14 am

Am playing as Gongsun Zan in Yellow Turban scenario


On May 185, still unable to expand, bcos Liu Yan & Zhang Jiao keep attacking me.


Also, could not capture any enemy officer......


Have to endure longer
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:06 am

foosoomin wrote:On May 185, still unable to expand, bcos Liu Yan & Zhang Jiao keep attacking me. Also, could not capture any enemy officer......


Can you try a ceasefire with the Turbans and knockout Liu Yan? Those officers would certainly help your position.


foosoomin wrote:Have to endure longer


Story of my life~ :wink:
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby foosoomin » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:01 pm

Sakae Wu wrote:
Can you try a ceasefire with the Turbans and knockout Liu Yan? Those officers would certainly help your position.





Oh, i successfully wiped out Liu Yan force on March 186, after struggling for two years
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