Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Koei’s Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series—discuss it here.

Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:36 am

Have tried all of those alternate routes at some point. Since they are long marches to new regions, you need to bring enough food for both the long march, and to get yourself established after the battle. Which means you have to minimize the troops in your units. It's just too resource-intensive to be worth it 99% of the time. Occasionally, I would go Beihai > Xiangping because Beiping is easier to conquer from the east. But even that is a resource drain.

I did have one wildly successful experience using an "alternate" route. As Liu Bei based in Xu, I marched on down to Jiangdong using the ocean route and wiped out the Sun clan, absorbing all their officers in the process. Liu Bei was a beast in that game.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby foosoomin » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:46 am

the "not so common" route i took

- was marching from Bei Hai to Xiang Ping

- marching from Ru Nan to Chen Liu ( need adept march, to march on shallow terrain )

- Han Zhong to Yong An, marched through the long plankway path

- Cheng Du to Yun Nan, cross the poison terrain ( two area of it ), lost quite a number of soldiers too
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Sakae Wu » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:34 am

Zyzyfer wrote: Occasionally, I would go Beihai > Xiangping because Beiping is easier to conquer from the east. But even that is a resource drain.


Just my 2 cents, but that was the one I would go with. For me, it's usually Zan's feeder city and he doesn't bother to beef it up until after you have the port. So easy a capture you dom't need the juggernauts that will lag too far behind. I haven't crunched the numbers but I would think it''s an overall time saver than taking it from the East if your a Central or Southern power.
The Ling ling to Yun Nan is good also, but it feels like AI manipulation, as they constantly send troops under supplied from the city just north east(forgot the name) but even then a supply unit will be a good 50-60 days behind the assault cavalry which is 180-200 days to city wall. I did discover though Ling Ling to Yun Nan is the same time as Wu ling to Yun Nan oddly enough.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:40 am

foosoomin wrote:the "not so common" route i took

- was marching from Bei Hai to Xiang Ping

- marching from Ru Nan to Chen Liu ( need adept march, to march on shallow terrain )

- Han Zhong to Yong An, marched through the long plankway path

- Cheng Du to Yun Nan, cross the poison terrain ( two area of it ), lost quite a number of soldiers too


#2 and #3 are common routes even for the AI, wouldn't consider them alternates.

#4 is yes, mostly useless, but I did stumble upon one cheat regarding it. If you station a unit out there at the extreme northern end of Yunnan territory, units will march out to try and repel it. At least half will get there, just to run low on food and have to make the return without doing anything. A few units will try to fend off whatever you have there for a few turns before retreating. If your camp or whatever has high HP you could theoretically just put that there and leave it undefended, but I think vanilla camps and such have low HP. It's not quite as abusive as the Shouchun facility cheat, but makes that entire western path seem a little less pointless.

Sakae Wu wrote:The Ling ling to Yun Nan is good also, but it feels like AI manipulation, as they constantly send troops under supplied from the city just north east(forgot the name) but even then a supply unit will be a good 50-60 days behind the assault cavalry which is 180-200 days to city wall. I did discover though Ling Ling to Yun Nan is the same time as Wu ling to Yun Nan oddly enough.


I think you're referring to Jianning? I usually just end up going for Jianning instead due to that.

Lingling and Wuling feed into the same passage, yeah? That's kind of interesting though, you could launch a "two-prong" assault then if need be.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Valvatorez » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:57 am

Foosoomin, since you were asking a while back about compatibility values for the npcs, did you just remake them in different slots or are you using them in the same npc slots? It would be nice if there was a way to use those slots 'normally', so was just wondering how you are using them.

About taking the long routes, sometimes I would send a transport unit over to one of those areas just to have the AI call a ceasefire to get some extra gold near the start of the game. Some of the AI are really paranoid if you set foot in any of their territories, Liu Yao seems to be the most skittish one of the bunch I think, gets scared over a little transport. Also I noticed too that sometimes the enemies that come out to expel someone don't bring that much food with them and end up getting wiped out.

Also since we are talking about city routes, Zyzyfer if you have time can you check this?

I don't think you play this game much anymore, if at all, but I will write this here since I don't think anyone else will know what I'm asking you about editing, and you seem to be the only one active anymore that could know about it, or will actually answer me :lol:

In the scenario.s11 file when checking the cities reads like this:

58 69 61 6E 67 20 50 69 6E 67 00 00 77 83 00 01 FF FF FF FF FF
42 65 69 20 50 69 6E 67 00 83 7A 00 4E 83 00 00 02 03 FF FF FF
4A 69 00 02 03 FF FF FF E5 48 00 00 FF 83 00 01 03 05 FF FF FF
4E 61 6E 20 50 69 00 03 05 FF FF 00 93 EC 01 01 02 04 06 FF FF

I won't post all the cities unless you need me to (and could color them so you know which ones I am asking about, but I'm sleepy and haven't played this game in months so will do it tomorrow if needed lol) but those are the first four cities, Xiang Ping (00) Bei Ping (01), Ji (02) and Nan Pi (03), the first part is for the name obviously, but any idea what the last 6 set of numbers are? The one before that seems to be the region they are in, and the last 6 for all the cities in the list are numbers of cities next to them, like for Nan Pi the numbers are for Bei Ping (01), Ji (02), Ping Yuan (04), and Ye (06). And some of the cities like Xiang Ping and Yun Nan that have no other neighbors only have 1 number, while some like Chen Liu have all 6 numbers filled. I was hoping that changing these could change some of the AI in cities behavior to maybe target cities farther away but haven't tested yet so was wondering if you ever messed with this part before or knew what those meant? They may only be something minor like what the strategist warns you about if they have a lot of troops or whatever, since I think Ye and Nan Pi say that about the other even though they aren't directly next to each other, but I haven't messed with these numbers yet really test it out.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:29 pm

I'm not Zyzyfer, but I don't think changing any of these has any effect on AI behaviour. I think I checked these connections back then to see if there was something regarding Xiapi <-> Wu, but I don't think there is.

By the way, Ye and Nanpi are adjacent. The road connecting the two is just north of Pingyuan.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Valvatorez » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:29 pm

Ah, thanks for the reply. The Xia Pi-Wu route is something I wanted to get rid of, so was hoping that there was something somewhere to change. Isn't there something that has each tile listed somewhere? I was thinking maybe I could try to block that route off that way or open up other paths like near Zi Tong and make areas passable instead of being mountains or something.
About Ye and Nan Pi though, the AI usually doesn't attack from one of those to the other though is what I meant, at least I don't really remember it doing so but could be wrong.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:05 am

I had some notion ages ago about blocking off the Xiapi/Wu route, or at least making it more accessible, but nothing ever came of it. I had wondered if adding a port to the northern part of that stretch of land sticking out west of Shouchun might...cause the AI to sometimes...fight there instead but...although tiles can be changed in save files, I don't think they're functional in that sense, we can't add cities and ports and things.

I will say this much. Having played around with pyre ships, which in large quantities can effectively create a barricade in the right conditions, AI behavior does not change. It will still try to deploy units if a route happens to exist there. So no matter what we do with the physical map, I'm assuming that the dumb computer will still use that route with wild abandon.

I kind of prefer what XIII has done, Guangling is a city and doesn't sit on a peninsula that juts out in between the two rivers.

Also I noticed too that sometimes the enemies that come out to expel someone don't bring that much food with them and end up getting wiped out.


Yeah, defenders always deploy with 100 days of food, attackers generally bring 200 days. I can see how this passed Koei testing, but it's pretty bad in practice, and is super exploitable.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Valvatorez » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:34 am

Hmm that's too bad, I was hoping to change some of the map to make some of the routes better for less traffic that gets stuck or just get rid of that one route in particular. I did try tonight to change the last 6 numbers of the cities Cheng Du and Yun Nan and added both city numbers to the other, and played only as the force in Cheng Du, and had both in long ceasefires with the force in Jian Ning, and the strategist in Cheng Du starts to warn there's a lot of troops in Yun Nan but Yun Nan never attacks, so I guess that doesn't work either then. Either way, thanks to both of you for letting me know, and saving me time too.

About the 100 days of food, I actually didn't know that, I knew sometimes the cities that have a lot of ground to cover have people run out of food on the way, but didn't know they always bring the same food no matter what, and does seem easy to exploit too just by moving the unit out of the way back to your territory every other turn.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby foosoomin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:31 am

Valvatorez wrote:Foosoomin, since you were asking a while back about compatibility values for the npcs, did you just remake them in different slots or are you using them in the same npc slots? It would be nice if there was a way to use those slots 'normally', so was just wondering how you are using them.



I just remake them at different officer slots, because they are not playable via their original position

Example Huang Chengyan is moved to different slots, his daughter Huang Yueying, i changed her "like" Huang Chengyan officer position to the new one too.
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