Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:51 am

When forces join up to form a bigger one, they get a troop boost. I've had it happen before when launching a risky attack on a city with few troops and then it joined with another force at like the last second. I was pretty pissed.

Kind of funny that Sun Jian and Liu Biao joined hands, though. Stuff like that and coalitions seems to happen more when I play my created force.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:56 pm

The only real issue I had with it was that I was about to attack Lingling (only had 15,000 troops sitting there).

Now I have to really build up some more armaments and wait for food and gold to arrive from Huiji. Probably will take about 3-4 months now since I requested it some time ago.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:38 am

Speaking of Wu (game update)
Sos I started a Wu 207 game. Now I get to use my knowledge of how the AI treats ports to my advantage. :twisted:

Wu in 207 X starts off with like 85+ officers! But a lot of them don't really shine. So many dudes with naval skills when they're not exactly needed.

Anyway, I built up my cities first, sent troops and ships to Qua, and stuck naval pros like Zhou Tai in there. It seems like a pretty quiet place for someone like him to be, but their sole goal right now is to keep Jiangduo away from Cao Cao (they'll take Xiapi at some point, or relocate if Cao sticks his thumb up his butt in the east). If they don't do this, he will eventually start dribbling units through Shouchun and wreaking havoc on my rear cities.

Sun Quan and some other relative landlubbers like Huang Gai and Taishi Ci went to Lujiang. They're currently tasked with keeping Rukukou out of Wei control and harassing Shouchun. There's even a camp just inside the border so I can wear down the city.

So access to Jiangdong is pretty much impossible for Wei. But that's all pretty ordinary when I play Wu. I also did something funny, since there's no way Sun Quan can reliably protect Liu Bei's Xinye, even from Jiangxia. That would eat up every bit of food I had.

In light of that, I sent Zhou Yu, Lu Meng, and Ling Tong in ships over to Jiangxia and attacked it. Once I had taken it, I transported everything out and threatened Liu Bei several times to make him hate me. One turn before Cao Cao launched his attack on Xinye - it's inconclusive if he will take it or not - Guan Yu marched on Jiangxia. I happily left it abandoned and stopped spending gold in Lujiang and Chaisang so I can repair relations. Guan Yu took it and then chilled.

So, with the north locked up and Liu Bei, if necessary, making his last stand close enough to home for me to intervene, this opens up Liu Biao and the Jingnan dudes to Chaisang. Let's see who wins the race to Chengdu, Cow Cow. Muhwahahaha.
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Requirements for getting an AI to surrender:

Unread postby willguo » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:11 am

The AI surrendering is NOT random. Below's the formula from sanguogame.com.cn - they have formulas for *everything* related to this game. I doubt anyone will actually go calculate using it, but it will give you a sense of what variables are considered.

Prerequisites: You must have 4x the number of cities, 3x the number of troops. The surrendering ruler cannot have more than 4 cities, and cannot hate your ruler. The following rulers will not surrender: Cao Cao, Sun Jian, Sun Ce, Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Lu Bu, Zhang Jiao.

Decision variable: ((Your # of cities / his # of cities) / 2 + (your # of cities - his # of cities) / 5 - (your officer's compatibility - his compatibility) * 11/28 + 10 points if you control the Emperor, else 0 + C) * (t/2)

Where C is 0 if your officer is the ruler's hated officer, 20 if the officer is liked by, husband/wife with, or sworn siblings with the target ruler, else 10. Your officer refers to the officer you send to solicit the surrender.

If the decision variable is > 100 + (target ruler's ambition * 7) - (relations between forces) / 4, you will succeed.

If you succeed, the officer you sent will gain 4000 deeds and 20 Charisma experience points. You will gain 200 TP.

If you fail, relations fall by 30, the officer you sent will gain 50 deeds and lose 1 Charisma experience point.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Goosey » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:17 am

Since we're on the topic of surrender, I have a question on diplomacy. What's generally more cost effective as far as using diplomacy to buy time: good will or ceasefire? Ceasefires can be costly but it guarantees a time frame of not being attacked. Goodwills can quickly add up to the cost of a ceasefire with no guarantees (at least I don't think there is). Goodwills however opens up options such as alliances and surrenders.

Side question, for those who like to use diplomacy to keep good relations, do you hesitate at all when recruiting officers from rulers you are trying to keep in good terms with?
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:10 am

I don't really think you can judge the cost effectiveness between using goodwill and paying for ceasefires because they don't really function the same way, at least in my experience.

Goodwill: It's good if you have the time and are not being attacked. If units from that force are marching on your city then it's very ineffective. As soon as you destroy a unit, relations go back to hostile. I would also say that it's only really useful when you have decent compatibility with the target force. Like Liu Bei and Ma Teng, do a few goodwills and you're at trusted like that. It takes much, much longer when compatibility is bad. Lastly, I'd say it's better if you want a long-term friendship with a force.

Ceasefire: Expensive up front, and relations don't really improve. However, it immediately stops battles and, like you said, it's guaranteed. And once you've got one, you can use goodwill to raise relations at your convenience, which will make the next one cheaper.

Personally, I find ceasefires more useful.

As for recruiting officers from forces with good relations, it all depends on how I want to roleplay my ruler really. With some forces, I don't recruit any employed officers. With others, I'm stealing people all the time. Sometimes I just go for the good ones.

One exception is with cases like the coalition in 190. If I'm say Cao Cao, I will maintain good relations with nearby allies, forcing them to attack each other. So, I don't bother them. Once they have a force to fight, I lift that ban.
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Goosey » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:33 am

Thanks Zyzyfer. I tried doing a search, but how did you guys find out about officer/ruler compatibility? Is there a chart I can look up? And about goodwill, what's a good relationship to have in order to not be attacked? Will you still be attacked by a ruler that have a trusted relationship with you? I've been asked for an alliance pretty quickly by rulers who trust mine, so I'm guessing the answer is no?
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:42 am

Well, no relation status really prevents anyone from attacking you. If you corner an enemy force in Wuwei and have trusted relations with him, he'll still attack you. :lol:
But more forces border him, I'd usually increase it so that it's better than his surrounding forces. Let's say Ma Teng borders Liu Bei, Zhang Lu and you, I would increase relations with him so that it's higher than his relations with Liu Bei and Zhang Lu. The AI usually targets that enemy whose relations with him are the worst.
Yes, sometimes they ask for an alliance if you have very good relations. Liu Biao does that most of the times. But I haven't had one of those more ambitious rulers to ask me yet (like Sun Ce).

As for compatibility, I don't really know about a chart. Someone has noticed a few years ago that there are still compatibilities from earlier games and they're the same as back then. And when we found out how to hex edit scenarios, it came by itself, lol. Shouldn't be much of a problem to create a list, though, I can do it if you want.

EDIT:
Here, Comptaibility list, ordered by numbers. Again, imagine it as a circle.
Compatibility List
1 - Dong Zhuo, Li Jue, Guo Si, Niu Fu, Hua Xiong, Dong Min, Li Ru
5 - Hao Meng
7 - Zhang Jiao, Zhang Bao (YT), Zhang Liang, Zhang Mancheng, Gao Sheng, Han Zhong, Sun Zhong, Zhao Hong, Guan Hai, He Yi, Yan Zheng, Cheng Yuanzhi, Deng Mao, Zhang Kai, Huan Jie
8 - Zhang Yan, Han Xian, Sui Gu, Fan Neng, Bian Xi
9 - Han Xuan, Yang Chou
10 - Yan Baihu, Yan Yu (Yan Baihu), Hua Xin, Gongsun Yuan
11 - Liu Yao, Ze Rong, Zhou Xin, Zhang Ying, Chen Heng
12 - Ou Xing, Xing Daorong, Chen Ying, Bao Long
13 - Yang Song
14 - Yang Bo
15 - Zhang Lu, Zhang Wei
16 - Yang Ang
17 - Zang Ba, Yang Ren
18 - Yan Pu
19 - Cao Shuang, Ma Zun, Wu Zhi, Cao Xi, Cao Xun, Xiahou Mao, Han De
20 - Jia Xu, Guo Huai, Zhong Hui, Sima Lang, Xiahou Xuan, Xiahou Lingnu, Wang Jing, Sun Li, Zhang Ji (late Wei), Li Feng (Wei), Hu Fen, Hu Zun, Cui Yan
21 - Yang Fu, Xu You, Wang Qi, Wang Yi, Guo Yuan (Wei), Che Zhou, Zhang Ji (early Wei), Dong Zhao, Huan Fan
22 - Yu Jin, Li Dian, Xun Yu, Xun You, Zhong Yao, Hao Zhao, Xi Zhicai, Cui Lin, Cai Yan, Zhong Yu, Bao Xin, Ding Yi, Li Tong
23 - Zhang Liao, Xu Huang, Yue Jin, Xiahou Ba, Xu Zhi, Zhang Hu, Yue Chen, Dian Man, Xu Yi
24 - Cao Hong, Xiahou Shang, Xiahou De, Cheng Yu, Cheng Wu, Sima Fu, Sima Wang, Cao Mao
25 - Cao Cao, Xiahou Dun, Xiahou Yuan, Cao Ren, Cao Ang, Guo Jia, Cao Zhang, Cao Zhi, Cao Chong, Cao Xiong, Cao Rui, Dian Wei, Xu Zhu, Zhen Shi, Qin Lang, Xiahou En, Bian Shi
26 - Cao Pi, Cao Zhen, Xiahou Wei, Xiahou He, Xiahou Hui, Cao Xiu, Cao Fang, Cao Huan, Cao Yu, Wang Shuang, Fei Yao
27 - Zhang He, Liu Ye, Gao Lan, Sun Guan, Niu Jin, Han Hao, Guo Yi, Gaotang Long
28 - Wen Pin, Chen Qun, Chen Tai, Fu Jia, Liu Shao, Dai Ling
29 - Man Chong, Jia Kui, Chen Jiao, Chen Qian, Mao Jie, Lu Qian, Liu Fu, Ma Jun, Xin Pi, Xin Chang, Xin Xianying, Hu Zhi, Zhang Qiu
30 - Wang Can, Wang Ji, Sima You, Hu Lie, Qian Zhao, Pei Xiu
31 - Sima Yi, Sima Shi, Sima Zhao, Sima Yan, Sima Zhou, Jia Chong, Wei Guan, Zhang Chunhua, Tian Yu, Yang Hu, Yang Xin, Xun Xu, Xun Yi, Shao Ti, Zhang Hua
32 - Du Yu, Wang Jun, Du Ji, Yang Ji, Jiang Ji, Wang Xiang, Wang Tao, Zhou Zhi, Shu Bao, Tang Bin
33 - Wang Chang, Wang Hun, Wang Ye, Qiu Jian, Yang Zhao
34 - Wang Lang, Wang Su, Wang Ling, Jin Yi, Jiang Gan, Liang Xi
35 - Kong Zhou, Xu Miao, Wang Zhong, Yuan Huan
36 - Liu Dai, Zhu Ling, Cai Mao, Cai He, Cai Zhong, Cai Shi, Zhang Yun, Yan Xing, Cheng Gongying, He Yan
37 - Wei Feng, Shen Yi, Shen Dan, Chen Lin
38 - Wen Qin, Wen Yang, Wen Hu, Fu Xun, Yin Damu
39 - Guanqiu Jian, Guanqiu Dian, Guanqiu Xiu, Wang Xiu, Wu Ju, Zhang Nan (Wei), Jiao Chu, Zhang Te
40 - Kuai Liang, Kuai Yue, Wang Rong, Yan Rou, Dong Jun, Zhuge Xu, Qian Hong, Han Song
41 - Deng Ai, Deng Zhong, Qiu Ben, Shi Zuan, Zhou Tai (Wei)
42 - Lou Gui, Tian Chou, Tian Xu
43 - Kong Rong, Yang Xiu, Wu Anguo
44 - Meng Da, Pan Jun
45 - Liu Biao, Liu Cong, Huang Zu, Wang Wei, Liu Pan
46 - Jin Xuan, Su You
48 - Han Sui, Hou Xuan, Yang Qiu, Liang Xin, Ma Wan, Zhang Heng, Li Kan
50 - Huang Hao, Yan Yu (Shu), Ma Miao, Chen Shou
51 - Wu Tugu, Mang Yachang, King Mulu
52 - Yong Kai, Zhu Bao
53 - Gao Pei, Yang Huai
54 - Leng Bao, Deng Xian
55 - Liu Yan, Liu Zhang, Liu Gui, Pang Xi, Liu Xun (Shu)
56 - Zhang Ren, Liu Ba, Huang Quan, Huang Chong
57 - Wang Lei
59 - Wu Lan, Lei Tong
60 - Meng Huo, Zhu Rong, Meng You, King Duosi, Dailai Dongzhu, Hua Man
61 - Yang Yi
62 - Ahui Nan, Dong Tuna, Jinhuan Sanjie, Jiang Shu
63 - E Huan, Gao Ding, Wang Men
64 - Tian Kai, Shan Jing, Yan Gang
65 - Pang De, Pang Hui, Gongsun Zan, Gongsun Xu, Gongsun Fan, Gongsun Yue, Zou Dan, Guan Jing
66 - Dong He, Li Hui, Fei Shi, Qiao Zhou, Qin Mi
67 - Huo Jun, Huo Yi, Li Yong
68 - Zhang Ni, Zhang Yi, Pei Yuanshao
69 - Wang Ping, Yan Yan, Ma Zhong (Shu), Gao Xiang, Wu Yi, Cheng Yi, Cheng Yin
70 - Ma Teng, Ma Chao, Ma Dai, Ma Xiu, Ma Tie, Ma Yunlu
71 - Li Yan, Zou Jing, Li Feng (Shu), Liao Li, Lu Kai (Shu), Wang Kang, Sha Moke
72 - Huang Zhong, Fa Zheng, Chen Dao, Zhang Song, Wu Ban, Liang Xu, Yin Shang
73 - Pang Tong, Jiang Wei, Jian Yong, Deng Zhi, Ning Sui, Dong Jue
74 - Liao Hua, Liu Pi, Gong Du, Zhang Nan (Shu), Fei Xi, Zhao Lei, Fu Qian, Fu Tong
75 - Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhuge Liang, Zhao Yun, Xu Shu, Huang Ying, Lu Zhi, Guan Ping, Guan Xing, Guan Suo, Guan Yi, Guan Tong, Zhuge Zhan, Zhuge Shang, Zhao Tong, Zhao Guang, Zhang Bao (Shu), Zhang Zun, Zhou Cang, Mi Shi, Bao Sanniang, Liu Feng, Liu Chen
76 - Liu Qi, Zhuge Jun, Sun Qian, Fan Shi, Luo Xian, Hu Ban, Hu Ji, Wang Fu
77 - Mi Zhu, Fei Yi, Ma Liang, Yi ji
78 - Liu Shan, Zhang Shao, Jiang Wan, Jiang Bin, Dong Yun, Fan Jiang, Liu Xuan
79 - Chen Gui, Chen Deng, Chen Zhen, Xiang Lang, Xiang Chong
80 - Wei Yan, Ma Su, Xi Zheng, Yin Mo, Guo Youzhi
81 - Chen Shi, Zhuge Qiao
82 - Tao Qian
83 - Zhao Fan, Gong Zhi
84 - Cao Bao
85 - Xin Ping, Xun Chen
86 - Yuan Tan
87 - Xu Jing
88 - Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun, Ding Yuan
89 - Dong Cheng
90 - He Jin
91 - Yang Feng (Nanman)
92 - Wang Yun, Yang Feng (Han)
93 - Han Fu
94 - Pan Feng, Fang Yue, Mu Shun
95 - Yuan Yi, Chunyu Qiong
96 - Liu Yu, Liu He, Tian Feng, Ju Shou, Ju Hu, Wei You
97 - Wang Kuang
98 - Qiao Mao, Han Juzi, Sui Yuanjin
99 - Qu Yi
100 - Zhang Miao, Guo Yuan (Yuan Shao)
101 - Yuan Shao, Yuan Xi, Yuan Shang, Shen Pei, Gao Gan, Gao Rou, Liu Shi
102 - Yan Liang, Wen Chou
104 - Jiang Yiqu
105 - Lu Weihuang
106 - Li Fu
107 - Lu Xiang, Lu Kuang
108 - Mi Fang, Fu Shiren
110 - Feng Ji
111 - Guo Tu
113 - Puyang Xing, Zhang Bu
114 - Sun Hao, Teng Xiu, He Zhi, Cen Hun
115 - Sun Chen, Sun Jun, Zhou Ang
116 - Sun Ji, Teng Yin, Wan Yu
117 - Sun Xin
118 - Zhou Fang, Zhang Wen
119 - Cheng Bing
120 - Zhang Zhao, Gu Yong, Gu Tan, Zhang Xiu (Wu), Tao Jun
121 - Zhuge Jin, Zhuge Ke, He Qi, Bu Zhi, Bu Xie, Lu Ji, Zhongli Mu, Yan Jun
122 - Lu Xun, Lu Kang, Lu Kai (Wu), Sun Yi (late Wu), Yu Fan, Yu Si, Zuo Yi, Zhang Hong, Luo Tong
123 - Ding Feng, Ding Feng, Lu Fan, Lu Ju, Song Qian, Jia Hua, Wang Dun
124 - Lu Meng, Lu Su, Taishi Ci, Taishi Xiang, Sun Shao, Xu Sheng, Chen Wu, Chen Biao, Zhang Cheng, Lu Shu
125 - Sun Ce, Sun Quan, Zhou Yu, Wu Guotai, Sun Xiu (Emperor), Sun Yi (early Wu), Sun Yu, Sun Deng, Sun Lang, Sun Liang, Sun Kuang, Sun He, Sun Zhen, Sun Shang Xiang, Sun Shi, Xu Shi, Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, Sun Luban
126 - Sun Jian, Cheng Pu, Han Dang, Zhu Zhi, Zhou Tai (Wu), Zhu Ran, Jiang Qin, Sun Jing, Sun Jiao, Shen Ying, Wu Jing, Wu Can, Wu Yan (40's INT), Yu Quan, Zhang Ti
127 - Huang Gai, Ling Cao, Ling Tong, Sun Huan, Zu Mao, Kan Ze, Dong Xi
128 - Wu Yan (70's INT), Quan Cong, Quan Shang, Quan Ji, Xue Zong, Xue Xu, Zhu Huan, Zhu Yi, Zhu Ju, Liu Cheng
129 - Gan Ning, Pan Zhang, Su Fei, Shi Shuo, Dong Chao, Wei Miao, Bu Chan, Liu Zan, Liu Lue, Liu Ping
130 - Lu Dai, Quan Yi, Quan Yi, Quan Duan, Luo Xuan, Sun Xiu (General)
131 - Ma Zhong (Wu), Wei Zhao, Hua He, Xue Ying
132 - Xie Jing, Tan Xiong, Tang Zi, Guo Ma, Li Yi
133 - Wu Gang
134 - Liu Du, Liu Xian
135 - Zhuge Dan, Zhuge Jing, Jiang Ban, Jiao Yi
136 - Jia Fan, Lun Zhi, Yan Xiang
137 - Qiao Rui
138 - Liu Xun (Wei), Yuan Yao, Liang Gan, Li Feng (Yuan Shu), Yue Jiu
139 - Yu She, Xu Gong
140 - Yuan Shu, Yuan Yin, Han Yin, Ji Ling, Chen Ji, Yang Hong
141 - Zhang Xun, Bei Yan, Yang Zuo
142 - Gongsun Du, Gongsun Kang, Gongsun Gong, Xu Rong, Chen Lan, Lei Bo
143 - Chen Gong
144 - Gao Shun
145 - Lu Bu, Diao Chan, Lu Lingqi, Zhang Yang, Bo Cai
146 - Li Su
147 - Hou Cheng, Song Xian, Wei Xu, Cao Xing
148 - Zhang Xiu (Wei), Zhang Ji (Dong Zhuo), Zou Shi, Hu Che'er
149 - Hu Zhen, Fan Chou
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:37 pm

Wow, that's an awesome list. Keep that in your pocket Lord Cao Cao. I tend to use one from Gamefaqs based on XIII, but not every officer is on there.

Sun Quan 207 X Update
It's official, I will be murdering a whole lot of Shu people...later.

Nothing much has changed from the previous update. I basically took Jiangling and fended off some attacks.

However, very recent developments with Liu Bei, sitting pretty in Jiangxia, came as a surprise. As mentioned before, I had to get relations down to hostile to convince him to take Jiangxia from me. I threw him some gold after that because he lost Xinye, not enough to get beyond hostile, but enough so he could build facilities etc. I was also waiting for him to take Xiakou, it's more useful in his hands than mine.

Fast forward a bit, I got relations up to a high poor or neutral, and was spamming goodwill to get it higher. Liu Biao still controls Xiangyang and Wuling. Han Xuan sends Wei Yan out to attack Chaisang. Wei Yan has 94 loyalty, so naturally, I try to recruit him, and eventually succeed. But Wei Yan is stuck inside of Luxian, so I have to take the port with him to get him home safely.

First, Liu Bei recruits him. A few turns later, even though I've been building relations, he gets that force joining event with Liu Biao. Since it's against me, relations plummet back to hostile.

Haha man. It's not 100% historical but I can feel Sun Quan's anger right now over the Jing dispute. :evil:

So basically, I've got to throw away plans to take out Jing myself. Liu Bei with three cities positioned like he is, and me not wanting to sacrifice Jiangling or have a big brawl with his spread out force, means I will have to ceasefire and later ally with him. This will let me march into Yi hopefully, and I'll have to look north to Cao Cao as well. Part of me wants to make peace with Cao Cao, or say screw the alliance efforts after getting jerked around so much, but at the same time, Liu Bei will get to shine for once in the scenario - no matter how much I've helped him in the past, he just sits around and sucks.

On the err bright side, Cao Cao picked up Zhuge Liang. :?
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Re: Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI Discussion

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:05 pm

You got yourself a pretty good game going there Zyzyfer.

After I finish the one I'm playing I may start playing some of those "sorta like history" type games. Well, either that or try my hand at another full scale SoSZ game. The one I'm playing now is watered down and missing more than half the people because I couldn't handle that much concentration on a game right now.
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