The Art of War

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Unread postby James » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:05 pm

Wu Wei Long wrote:I may have misunderstood you and if I have I am sorry. Zhuge Liang didn't write the book Mastering the Art of War but he wrote The Way of the General. I dunno if you actually meant he didn't write Mastering the Art of War or if you meant Way of the General. Tell me if I didn't understand you correctly.

He is probably just saying that he doubts the authenticity of the contents in that book that are attributed to Zhuge Liang. ;)

Have you noticed that they have online versions of the other books you were looking at as well?
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Unread postby Wix The Great » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:13 pm

Yup, I am looking at Machiavelli's ver.
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Unread postby James » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:25 pm

Wu Wei Long wrote:Yup, I am looking at Machiavelli's ver.

I also noticed that it isn't really a version. Machiavelli's book "The Art of War" is actually something completely independant of Sun Tzu's work.
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Unread postby Lu Xun » Tue Aug 27, 2002 3:24 am

Machiavelli's views, while similar and I believe based on Sun Tzu end up being quite different because of the Western mindset versus the Eastern. In this situation I perfer the Eastern as opposed to the former. Eastern philosphy seems to be more open and free for interpretation. I delve into this furthe, but it isn't entirely on-topic. I discussed it in English class today, but most people couldn't get into the discussion, so our Socratic dialouge ended up being the two of us sharing views on Machiavelli and Sun Tzu...off the topic of Lao Tzu's Taoist wrtitings.

Anyway, I would also like to know the "best" version of Art of War. Does anyone have a favorite if they have read more than one? ^_^
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Unread postby Han Xin » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:36 am

Lu Xun wrote:Anyway, I would also like to know the "best" version of Art of War. Does anyone have a favorite if they have read more than one? ^_^


My favourite is Sun Bin's 36 strategems, it more precised whereas Sun Tzu is more general. I heard Wu Qi's Art of War is good too, it only published in chinese I think.
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Unread postby Han Xin » Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:41 am

Zhuge Kongming wrote:
Wu Wei Long wrote:I may have misunderstood you and if I have I am sorry. Zhuge Liang didn't write the book Mastering the Art of War but he wrote The Way of the General. I dunno if you actually meant he didn't write Mastering the Art of War or if you meant Way of the General. Tell me if I didn't understand you correctly.

He is probably just saying that he doubts the authenticity of the contents in that book that are attributed to Zhuge Liang. ;)

Have you noticed that they have online versions of the other books you were looking at as well?


I don't seem to find any evident about any military text left behind by Zhuge Liang. In SGZ with/without Pei's notes, there was talk of his inventions and stuff but it did not talk about any literature left by Zhuge Liang, I found it hard to believe that Pei (a very pro-Shu writer) would left such thing out of the great Zhuge Liang's bio.
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Unread postby Shi Jing Xu » Tue Aug 27, 2002 9:21 pm

Wu Wei Long wrote:Yup, I am looking at Machiavelli's ver.


Ah, the Art of War by Machiavelli; something I wish I am never forced to read. For after his book: "The Prince", I dare not read another thing. But, in any case I do, I will know that it is not the same as Sun Tzu's. The Prince, in my opinion, has much to do on governing a place, with bits of warfare. But, for more information, this link seems to be very informative of his version. This link came from Kongming.net by the way! :D
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Unread postby Benkei » Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:05 pm

I think for a good copy of Sun Tzu's Art of War you also need the commentary. Not the modern commentary by the classical. If you buy the trasalated Art of War what you read is the translator's interpretation of the Art of War. If you read the Art of War with commentary by others, before modern times, you get a better sense of what is actually meant. But to make your own interpretations of the book you should try to get a original copy, origanal in the sense of in classical chinese. So that you can make your own interpretaion of the text.

Does anyone know how to get the other 7 military classics? I have been looking for 2 years now but I still cant find the. Like The 6 secret teachings, etc.
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Unread postby Tianshan Zi » Sat Oct 05, 2002 5:04 pm

I saw that Ralph D. Sawyer was mentioned in a previous posting. I am now reading his translation of The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China, Westview Press, 1993, ISBN 0-8133-1228-0. It contains great introductions to each work, an overview of ancient Chinese history, and great notes. The works contained in the volume are:

T'ai Kung's Six Secret Teachings
The Methods of the Ssu-ma
Sun-tzu's Art of War
Wu-tzu (excellent!)
Wei Liao-tzu (also excellent)
Three Strategies of Huang Shih-kung
Questions and Replies Between T'ang T'ai-tsung and Li Wei-kung (some critical mention of Cao Cao--as Ts'ao Ts'ao--here)

I have not read Sawyer's book that focuses only on Sun-tzu, but I will say that his translation of The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China is quite good.
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Unread postby Cherry_Blossom » Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:45 am

Does anyone know how to get the other 7 military classics? I have been looking for 2 years now but I still cant find the. Like The 6 secret teachings, etc.


I don't know if you have found it yet or if this is what you want but here is a link to the book being sold on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 24-9836612

I have two questions now to add to this board:1) Is it proven Zhuge Liang didn't write Mastering the Art of War? (If so who is the true author and I wish I ahd seen this before..I got the book for Christmas..oh well it should still be a good read) 2) Is the book Way of the General translated into English and if so do you know where I could find it? (of course how do we know he really wrote that one either?) Oh yes and I read the Art of War..I forgot which version..I ordered about three from the library now..but was wondering..I heard Cao Cao annotated the book but don't see that in the book itself..is there a special version of the book that includes that as well?

Okay I guess I lied unintentionally, :lol: I have way more than two questions...all help is appreciated.. :D :oops:
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