Chinese-zhongwen thread

Discuss literature (e.g. books, newspapers), educational studies (getting help or opinions on homework or an essay), and philosophy.

Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:45 am

I can read about half of this as usual, wish I could answer the questions... :cry: I know they dont translate too.

I must learn to read Chinese properly....
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Shi Tong wrote:I can read about half of this as usual, wish I could answer the questions... :cry: I know they dont translate too.

I must learn to read Chinese properly....

Don't worry, it's just a joke. The questions are like:

- What is the rebellion at the end of Eastern Han called?
(1) The Yellow Scarf Rebellion; (2) The Yellow Hat Rebellion; (3) The Yellow Pants Rebellion; (4) The Yellow Shoes Rebellion

And includes the obligatory pun about Wei Yan and stomach flu ("Wei Yan" sounds exactly like the word for "stomach flu").
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:00 pm

:lol: :lol: Right!!

I wonder if there are any generals called Wei Tong? That would be pretty hilarious too!

I didn't realise that Wei4 Yan2 meant stomach flu--- I'm guessing same tones too right? :lol:
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Unread postby BIN » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:05 am

since this is chinese thread, i like to post some interesting zhongwen short essay
see if someone can read it.
施氏食狮史---赵元任
PINYIN:shi1 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi3----zhao4 yuan2 ren4

石室诗士施氏,嗜狮,誓食十狮。
shi2 shi4 shi1 shi4 shi1 shi4, shi4 shi1, shi4 shi2 shi2 shi1.
施氏时时适市视狮。
shi1 shi4 shi2 shi2 shi4 shi4 shi4 shi1
十时,适十狮适市。
shi2 shi2, shi4 shi2 shi1 shi4 shi4
是时,适施氏适市。
shi4 shi2, shi4 shi1 shi4 shi4 shi4
氏视是十狮,恃矢势,使是十狮逝世。
shi4 shi4 shi4 shi2 shi1, shi4 shi1 shi4, shi3 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi4 shi4.
氏拾是十狮尸,适石室。
shi4 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi1, shi4 shi2 shi4
石室湿,氏使侍拭石室。
shi2 shi4 shi1, shi4 shi3 shi4 shi2 shi4
石室拭,氏始试食是十狮。
shi2 shi4 shi4, shi4 shi3 shi4 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1
食时,始识是十狮,实十石狮尸。
shi2 shi2, shi3 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1, shi2 shi2 shi2 shi1 shi1
试释是事。
shi4 shi4 shi4 shi4


lol :lol:
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:12 am

BIN wrote:since this is chinese thread, i like to post some interesting zhongwen short essay
see if someone can read it.
施氏食狮史---赵元任
PINYIN:shi1 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi3----zhao4 yuan2 ren4

石室诗士施氏,嗜狮,誓食十狮。
shi2 shi4 shi1 shi4 shi1 shi4, shi4 shi1, shi4 shi2 shi2 shi1.
施氏时时适市视狮。
shi1 shi4 shi2 shi2 shi4 shi4 shi4 shi1
十时,适十狮适市。
shi2 shi2, shi4 shi2 shi1 shi4 shi4
是时,适施氏适市。
shi4 shi2, shi4 shi1 shi4 shi4 shi4
氏视是十狮,恃矢势,使是十狮逝世。
shi4 shi4 shi4 shi2 shi1, shi4 shi1 shi4, shi3 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi4 shi4.
氏拾是十狮尸,适石室。
shi4 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1 shi1, shi4 shi2 shi4
石室湿,氏使侍拭石室。
shi2 shi4 shi1, shi4 shi3 shi4 shi2 shi4
石室拭,氏始试食是十狮。
shi2 shi4 shi4, shi4 shi3 shi4 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1
食时,始识是十狮,实十石狮尸。
shi2 shi2, shi3 shi2 shi4 shi2 shi1, shi2 shi2 shi2 shi1 shi1
试释是事。
shi4 shi4 shi4 shi4


lol :lol:

Hehehe, I'm actually quite good at this one. I've given a few lectures on the historical development of Chinese pronunciations, and used this as an example. I almost went crazy practising it, though.
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Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:37 pm

Ah, the Ten Stone Lions poem - 真好玩儿,真好玩儿!

I'm not sure I agree with Mr Zhao - classical Chinese does still have its uses, even if we don't necessarily want to continue writing in it. In my field of study in particular (philosophy), knowing classical Chinese is useful in that you can go straight back to the primary source without having to go through poor translations of words like 德,诚,无为,智,等等.

- 魏文帝
Last edited by WeiWenDi on Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:54 pm

Damn! Stupid typo. Should be 魏文帝。

That's me though, I suppose. 猬文帝 'Civil Emperor of the Hedgehogs'. :P
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:57 pm

WeiWenDi wrote:That's me though, I suppose. 猬文帝 'Civil Emperor of the Hedgehogs'. :P

I was wondering! :lol:

文言文有沒有用,見仁見智吧。對一般人來説,最重要的是解決吃飯的問題。自己的文化背景,大概知道就可以了。與其花時間研究文言文,不如看看報紙認識一下現在的天下大事,讀一些囊括一點的文化常識書籍。我不是鼓吹這樣的生活,而只是想指出,有些人會覺得文言文沒有用,而他們的觀點不一定是錯的。

當然,研究東方哲學、歷史、語言學等等的人有需要學文言文,是不爭的事實。這就好比念西方文化歷史的人都要念拉丁文一樣。
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Unread postby WeiWenDi » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:36 am

吴国太:

我下个学期开始学文言文 - 对我的大学的东亚学系来说,学习白话比较重要,所以固定的文言文课就没有。我跟我的中文教授商量一下了,她就让我做个文言文的独立学(independent study?)。

Lady Wu wrote:與其花時間研究文言文,不如看看報紙認識一下現在的天下大事,讀一些囊括一點的文化常識書籍。我不是鼓吹這樣的生活,而只是想指出,有些人會覺得文言文沒有用,而他們的觀點不一定是錯的。


我承认这个观点有理由。我也知道很多华人的文化背景博大,所以对他们来说学习这种古老的案文故事可能是浪费时间。然而,我不是华人:我的中国文化背景还很狭隘。如果我想要认真地学习东亚的哲学,我觉得学习文言文是必要的。

Lady Wu wrote:當然,研究東方哲學、歷史、語言學等等的人有需要學文言文,是不爭的事實。這就好比念西方文化歷史的人都要念拉丁文一樣。


我完全同意。我也觉得,拉丁文和古文的情况、地位大同小异,但是我的中国朋友们都告诉我文言文非常难学。你觉得一般华人读,比如说,《列子》的时候,比说英文的一般人看撒克逊文的《贝奥武甫》(Beowulf)一样吗?

- 猬文帝 :wink:
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:38 am

WeiWenDi wrote:吴女士

怎么是“吴女士”了?正确的称呼是“最尊敬的至高无上的吴国太”!;)

我下个学期开始学文言文 - 对我的大学的东亚学系来说,学习白话比较重要,所以固定的文言文课就没有。我跟我的中文教授商量一下了,她就让我做个文言文的独立学(independent study?)。

那很好啊。我念本科的大学里的东亚学系很大,研究文言的教授不少,可是文言文课办的很糟糕。部分原因其实是因为很多学生是香港、台湾移民,以为自己在中学念过文言就可以不费吹灰之力就拿"easy A"。(强烈鄙视中)

事实上,他们所谓“念过文言”只是“死背过某些文言文章并背过它们的白话翻译”而已。所以,课堂上一讲语法他们就糊涂了,唯有靠抄袭等卑鄙、不正当的手段应付。:evil:

唉,不说了,都是十年前的事了。 赞成independent study。

我完全同意。我也觉得,拉丁文和古文的情况、地位大同小异,但是我的中国朋友们都告诉我文言文非常难学。你觉得一般华人读,比如说,《列子》的时候,比说英文的一般人看撒克逊文的《贝奥武甫》(Beowulf)一样吗?

Beowulf 是古英语,不算撒克逊文。

个人认为,古汉语跟古英语的“难度”差不多(当然,一个语言的“难度”是相对另一个语言来决定的)。最大的不同是,现代汉语里有较多的成语保存了古汉语的语法,而且多数的字的写法没有很大的变动,尽管它们的读音已经发展的面目全非。相对而言,英语的书写系统比较能够反映当时的读音。比如说,cyningking 是同一个字。明白古英语到现代英语发音的改变的人,一眼就知道,可是普通人不会。汉语的“好处”就是从古到今都是用“王”一字来代表那个词。就算我们不知道周朝时“王”字的发音,我们至少能知道这个字是什么意思。这一点上,从现代汉语的角度来看古汉语,的确比从现代英语看古英语比较容易。

可是,实际上,古汉语到现代汉语的语法改动还是颇大的。会现代汉语的人,读文言文时虽然能够较容易地猜到部分内容,可是真的要他了解古文的语法结构,就不是那么容易了。
"Whatever you do, don't fall off the bridge! It'll be a pain to try to get back up again." - Private, DW 8
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