Scientific Questions Thread

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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:05 pm

epaminondas146871 wrote:
Aygor wrote:In Cambridge researches created Xna, effectively demonstrating that Dna and Rna are not the only possible way to encode genetic information in a fucntional life form with a biology similiar to the (our) biology evolved on Earth. Any clues or thoughts? this opens a lot of extremely interesting scenarios for Biology, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, Xenobiology, Genetics and Bioengineering.


The thing about biology is that we only have Earth biology. Biology literally depends planet to planet unlike other fields that are speculated to be universal, i.e. physics or chemistry. For example, Stephen Hawking theorizes organisms in gas form on gaseous planets that derive sustenance from lightning on their stormy planet, or organisms made of cosmic dust. Neither of these are recognizable as life to us. It is impossible to define life simply because we've only seen one planets worth of it.


Well, not exactly.
First thing first, life has its biological definition, and states that something is alive if it has birth, interacts with the environment and there assimilates nutrients, eventually dies.
Chemical Physics definition of life is: A thermodynamical open system which can mantain itself in a stationary phase of disequilibrium and capable of catalyzing various chemical reactions to syntetize itself is a life form.
Therefore whateverlike life would appear to us, we would most likely recognize it as a biological entity.
Then yes, biology is limited by what it works on, therefore prooving that a biology similiar to ours (aka based on cells which encode genetic information with nucleic acids and manifest those information whith proteins) would be able to work with different nucleic acids is very important as it opens a new series of routes of speculation and sperimentation.

It has already opened a lot of scenarios in Medicine and Pharmacology, as the different Xnas could be used to create new medicines and avoid interaction difficulties that medicines containing nucleic acids have.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:45 pm

Aygor wrote:Well, not exactly.
First thing first, life has its biological definition, and states that something is alive if it has birth, interacts with the environment and there assimilates nutrients, eventually dies.
Chemical Physics definition of life is: A thermodynamical open system which can mantain itself in a stationary phase of disequilibrium and capable of catalyzing various chemical reactions to syntetize itself is a life form.
Therefore whateverlike life would appear to us, we would most likely recognize it as a biological entity.
Then yes, biology is limited by what it works on, therefore prooving that a biology similiar to ours (aka based on cells which encode genetic information with nucleic acids and manifest those information whith proteins) would be able to work with different nucleic acids is very important as it opens a new series of routes of speculation and sperimentation.


In my opinion, no matter how we define life at this point in time, we simply do not have enough data to define it. We know that certain organisms are alive, but they all operate similarly. Human scientists have defined life, yes, but we still can't know what life truly is.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:26 am

epaminondas146871 wrote:
Aygor wrote:Well, not exactly.
First thing first, life has its biological definition, and states that something is alive if it has birth, interacts with the environment and there assimilates nutrients, eventually dies.
Chemical Physics definition of life is: A thermodynamical open system which can mantain itself in a stationary phase of disequilibrium and capable of catalyzing various chemical reactions to syntetize itself is a life form.
Therefore whateverlike life would appear to us, we would most likely recognize it as a biological entity.
Then yes, biology is limited by what it works on, therefore prooving that a biology similiar to ours (aka based on cells which encode genetic information with nucleic acids and manifest those information whith proteins) would be able to work with different nucleic acids is very important as it opens a new series of routes of speculation and sperimentation.


In my opinion, no matter how we define life at this point in time, we simply do not have enough data to define it. We know that certain organisms are alive, but they all operate similarly. Human scientists have defined life, yes, but we still can't know what life truly is.


I beg to differ. I feel that what life truly is isn't a problem that really matters as our intellect's ways and our senses to collect datas are limited to a tiny spectre of reality and therefore only what life appears to as matters (by the way i would love to read your opinion on the truth topic about that).
And in my opinion we have enough data to understeand what life is under that condition.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:50 pm

Aygor wrote:I beg to differ.


I think the issue may be that I'm thinking of life as a state of consciousness, consciousness being something we know very little about whereas you are thinking more of data and biological/chemical definitions. Anyhow, “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist... ” yet, at least.

Aygor wrote:I feel that what life truly is isn't a problem that really matters as our intellect's ways and our senses to collect datas are limited to a tiny spectre of reality and therefore only what life appears to as matters (by the way i would love to read your opinion on the truth topic about that).


I agree, and I think that this is perhaps a reason why we cannot define life. We definitely cannot perceive everything, even things we know of, and there are definitely things we don't know of.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:32 pm

epaminondas146871 wrote:
I think the issue may be that I'm thinking of life as a state of consciousness, consciousness being something we know very little about whereas you are thinking more of data and biological/chemical definitions. Anyhow, “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist... ” yet, at least.


I actually feel the same about consciousness.
My opinion is that self consciousness is per se an accidental symptom of life. I would go as far as saying that in my opinion a futuristic AI computer with self consciousness (understeanding itself as different from the outside where perceptions come from | and that way to define it is debeatable too -I think i may start a topic about consciousness one of these days-) is alive. A non biological life form.
That however is an opinion, and as many life forms most probably have no consciousness life seems to be a wider concept (self consciousness however is a characteristic usually ignored in scientific studies about life).

Of course, everyone's entitled to have his own opinions, i like debating but wasn't trying to force my point.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby chenjiaoo » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:20 pm

epaminondas146871 wrote:I agree, and I think that this is perhaps a reason why we cannot define life.


The question is more on why and how does life exists rather than what is life, which is already defined.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:10 am

chenjiaoo wrote:
epaminondas146871 wrote:I agree, and I think that this is perhaps a reason why we cannot define life.


The question is more on why and how does life exists rather than what is life, which is already defined.


What life is is already well defined but not definitely, there's still debate on that side, as to which parameters one may consider life's traits and wich ones should be regarded as life's affections per say.

How life exists is pretty much known, as we know most of the biochemical fundaments of living beings nowadays.
There are solid hypothesises about life evolution too, proven by genetical evidence (albeit it is impossible to know the exact course of events, of course, we may say to have a quite clear view upon life's origin on earth).

Why is something we humans cannot explore, and science can say nothing about it.
It is our nature to ask why, and while this answer doesn't have (and most probably will never have) a definite answer, it is primarily a discussion object of philosophy and religion.
On a biological point of view, the only thing one may notice about life's purpouse is that it is to mantain itself (reproduction istincts under pressure, defence of relatives in a genetic scale of caring, ultimately defence of the species, cellular defence of itself in changing conditions and so on).
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Korin » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:31 pm

Humans have Alien dna, somewhere in history homos met humans but nobody recorded!! I believe humans sometime in the past came in contact with homos, and modern humans!! It proves that alien life has been to earth!!
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:33 pm

Korin wrote:Humans have Alien dna, somewhere in history homos met humans but nobody recorded!! I believe humans sometime in the past came in contact with homos, and modern humans!! It proves that alien life has been to earth!!



I couldn't really follow that. By homos I assume and hope you mean homosapiens. We are homosapies, so of course we've humans because they are us.
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Re: Scientific Questions Thread

Unread postby Korin » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:37 pm

Shikanosuke wrote:
Korin wrote:Humans have Alien dna, somewhere in history homos met humans but nobody recorded!! I believe humans sometime in the past came in contact with homos, and modern humans!! It proves that alien life has been to earth!!



I couldn't really follow that. By homos I assume and hope you mean homosapiens. We are homosapies, so of course we've humans because they are us.


I was talking about the homos, ancient ones to be exact.
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