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Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:16 pm
by Aygor
Sun Fin wrote:The devils capacity to do harm is that God chose to give humans free will and so the devil is able to attack humans by making choices seem attractive that are really damaging and harmful.

Satan himself, a creature, turned it's back to god on it's own right: an evil influence is not necessary for creatures to possess free will.
If anything the devil's ability to attack humans is an impairment to free will as it influences our choices beyond our own control.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:16 am
by FoxWithWings
The reason God allows the Devil to do what he does is to test the strength of the people's faith. Why do you think he allowed the Devil to test Jesus in the desert?

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:24 am
by Aygor
Fledgling Dragon wrote:The reason God allows the Devil to do what he does is to test the strength of the people's faith. Why do you think he allowed the Devil to test Jesus in the desert?

Being omniscent, he already knows both the unfolding and the outcome of these tests: allowing such evil influence over his creation is then actively and knowingly eternally damning several of the creatures he supposedly loves.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:04 am
by Ayame
Aygor wrote:
Fledgling Dragon wrote:The reason God allows the Devil to do what he does is to test the strength of the people's faith. Why do you think he allowed the Devil to test Jesus in the desert?

Being omniscent, he already knows both the unfolding and the outcome of these tests: allowing such evil influence over his creation is then actively and knowingly eternally damning several of the creatures he supposedly loves.


That is another thing that doesn't make sense to me.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:49 pm
by Sun Fin
Aygor wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:The devils capacity to do harm is that God chose to give humans free will and so the devil is able to attack humans by making choices seem attractive that are really damaging and harmful.

Satan himself, a creature, turned it's back to god on it's own right: an evil influence is not necessary for creatures to possess free will.
If anything the devil's ability to attack humans is an impairment to free will as it influences our choices beyond our own control.


I don't understand how you took the fact the devil is necessary to have free will from what I said? The devil is nothing to do with whether we have it or not it is merely the fact that we can chose to accept or reject God that gives the devil a platform to attack us.

Aygor wrote:Being omniscent, he already knows both the unfolding and the outcome of these tests: allowing such evil influence over his creation is then actively and knowingly eternally damning several of the creatures he supposedly loves.


A far better point.

I can only point to the suffering that Jesus (God) endured on the cross to make things right between mankind and himself and question whether he would have gone through that if he didn't love us?

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:17 pm
by Aygor
Sun Fin wrote:I don't understand how you took the fact the devil is necessary to have free will from what I said? The devil is nothing to do with whether we have it or not it is merely the fact that we can chose to accept or reject God that gives the devil a platform to attack us.

From this line:
Sun Fin wrote:The devils capacity to do harm is that God chose to give humans free will and so the devil is able to attack humans

as my original question implied the necessary connivance of God in the devil's evildoings I misinterpreted your answer as if it was meant to address that by implying it's necessitry for free will to occur.

Sun Fin wrote:
Aygor wrote:Being omniscent, he already knows both the unfolding and the outcome of these tests: allowing such evil influence over his creation is then actively and knowingly eternally damning several of the creatures he supposedly loves.


A far better point.

I can only point to the suffering that Jesus (God) endured on the cross to make things right between mankind and himself and question whether he would have gone through that if he didn't love us?

From a quantitative and qualitative scale a day of torture, humiliation and death are nothing to a being infinite and eternal.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:04 am
by mendedties
Aygor wrote:From a quantitative and qualitative scale a day of torture, humiliation and death are nothing to a being infinite and eternal.


From my understanding of things, it is believed that Jesus endured something beyond mere physical atrocities. On the cross he experienced some sort of incomprehensible spiritual pain, the full weight of the agony that would have been ours had he not taken it. What exactly that was, we really have no idea.

Furthermore, it is the fact that a perfect God was willing to come down to our level and suffer at all for corrupt, debased creatures like us that is so incredible. How exactly that works, again, we don't know. Is it actually possible for God, in some obscure way beyond what we can understand, to suffer? Things get murky when you have God in man-form.

Really though, all of this, especially the problem of evil, is getting into murky territory. These are things we simply don't know. We don't have answers for everything. We have no idea where or how evil could have originated. I can guarantee you that anyone who claims to know the answer to that hasn't thought it through all that well.

Of course, that isn't to say it isn't worth discussing.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:00 pm
by Li_Shengsun
I'm sorry but i hate to say this, no matter how I look, search, find about this.
Things that close to describe what these.... Satan is are US(no, not country)... but Us, human. These.... Satan.. lives inside us... the feeling of anger... envy... greed... hatred... murder... deceptions... anything that produce a negative side feeling in our heart is where Satan grow stronger.

So, if you ask about how do i feel about it? is what i feel about when i look into myself on the mirror... is it the day i turn into corrupt man or is it not?

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:18 pm
by SunXia
Satan is nothing more than another deterrent for the Powers to use to control people. The figurative demon that will punish anyone who dissents and doesn't worship the Abrahamic God.

The only evil to me is anything that deliberately or selfishly causes people to suffer with no good intent.

Re: How do you feel about Satan?

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:54 am
by Liu Yuante
SunXia wrote:Satan is nothing more than another deterrent for the Powers to use to control people. The figurative demon that will punish anyone who dissents and doesn't worship the Abrahamic God.

The only evil to me is anything that deliberately or selfishly causes people to suffer with no good intent.


Your second sentence is one that I think many people could get behind, but the question becomes, who gets to define what "good intent" means? Most people who have a habit of doing bad things or who orient themselves towards others and the rest of the world in a toxic/damaging/harmful way do not believe they are doing so and are in fact convinced that what they are doing is good, right, just, etc. Very few people do harm knowing that is what they are doing (without also drafting rationalizations that allow them to placate any conscience/assuage any guilt they feel).

And then there is also the question of having good intentions - to what degree does having meant well absolve one for responsibility for the actions taken in service of that good intent? One of the key pieces of social discussion in the U.S. anyway revolves around getting people to think about unconscious and unintentional racism/sexism/etc. as opposed to only thinking of these things as conscious, "mean", overt actions performed only by Bad People. Personally, I think intent is important but you still have to take the right actions, too.