Sociality In the New Generation

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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:32 pm

Lady Wu wrote:Short post, only because my cultural psychology textbook was talking about something similar.

Two of the factors that may have caused our generation to be more individualistic are the availability of personal entertainment (i.e., you can be entertained while staring at the tiny screen on your phone, instead of having to talk to a real person or go out to a real event), and the lack of a common bond. The generation that went through WW2 had very similar experiences and the common struggle strengthened their social bond.


Exactly!

In fact, some of us are even disconnected with ourselves.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:16 pm

In England, the social barriers after WW2 went straight back up as soon as the war was over.

I'm less sure we are more individualistic as people, more we have more chance to be individuals in a more individualistic culture and a technological age which means we are less forced to do what the community wants or approves of. Also perhaps the usual centres of community have lost their power
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:45 pm

Tch, this thread slowed down, oh well, but lets swich subject away from Facebook and the like.
I was listening to NPR recently there 10 pm Forum show repeat, i guess its at least regionally broadcasted, but what was interesting was the fact that the speaker was author Amy Chu, her book "Battle Hymm of The Tiger Mother" is a very critical view of parenting(which shapes the new generation) in america. She continuously reemphazised the fact that the book was"memoir"not a harsh critique of parenting. Yet her describtions of it during the show were simply awful, she mainly said the point of the book was to be a reaction to A Wall Street Journal article on the Asian Parenting stereotype. Yet she also included the fact that the way she parent"s is better than others, like she said "i want children to have freedom of choice" yet then she contradicted herself by saying" i dont like kids who think their entitled," If you give them freedom of choice they're naturally going to think they are entitled, and also mentioning how controlling she was of her second daughter. that she at age 5 gave her the choice of learning an instrument or hanging out with friends. the daughter chose the friends by what amy says, but she made her prefect the violin anyway.To me its like. how can you argue against a stereotype when you yourself embraced that stereotype, its not only hypocritical, but the fact that she offered a totally bias self-centric opinion of herself and her parenting style, this as she said she didn't give anyone else a part in the book,like her husband(amy is married) and the husband doesn't really appear in the book,you'd expect him to in any two parent parenting style after all.Also, she kept telling the fact that happiness is achieved by success in life, and i beg to differ, at age 18 or so the child now a young adult should have the choice of career, not some preset notion of becoming a lawyer or something. I was completely outraged by the broadcast, so were a number of callers etc, and id like to say, CHILDREN ARE NOT DOLLAR SIGNS!, that appears to be what Amy Chu did,Children should be free to chose their own way, become self-reliant based on their limited experiences and the teachings of parents, not by the over-control of them, criticisms should be made to help not hurt( that positive self esteem raising critique not the ,i want 4.0 and perfect grades always out of you critique, and the like) she described her daughter "exploding" emotionally at age 12 so i mean she must have been exactly that, and how do you make a 12 year old have a nervous breakdown type thing, it just a thing unheard of....(at least to me).
Main Points- The unsociality except via internet in the new generation starts with the parents. If they simply gave the child a moderate amount of free choice, there would definetely be an entirely different set person to person interactions in the world as of now. Parents have to learn the thing called ' everything in moderation', equality of free time vs school and academics, less stress by not imposing career choices on them, let them have interesting widely varying social lives, and no confining them to a set of stiff unadaptable and unreasonable rules( like no Tv, video games)(a curfew, study time i consider reasonable).
Thoughts?? Since such programs are usually only the surface,refer the NPR site for the past show if you think im lying,i hope i dont get in trouble for refering that, i dont think i will after all NPR is public domain..
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Lady Wu » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:06 pm

Well, first you have to understand that Amy Chu is of East Asian background, and her culture has a lot to do with what she believes the role of parents are in the upbringing of children.

Second, I don't think overly-involved (whatever that means) or pushy parents are the reason why kids are less social. There are many cultures where parents dictate what their kids do, but those cultures were traditionally very social as well. In traditional Chinese culture, for example, parents always push their kids to do their best, and kids also accept the responsibility of continuous self-improvement for the sake of their families and communities. And Chinese culture is also one in which interconnectedness and community are very important.

Yes, stress can be one factor that is associated with the increasing isolation of today's generation, but I would be cautious to draw a causation link in either direction. Rather, I would look to factors such as urbanization and apparent self-sufficiency (i.e., nowadays we appear to have to rely less and less on other people to help us, what with technology, promises of education, etc.) for an answer to the question.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:47 pm

I see your point....
Amy Chu was just really annoying to listen to on NPR she kept talking and talking, barely gave the moderator or callers time to talk, kept overtly defending herself..... Yes, Chinese culture is very well estblished with customs, ways of life and interaction, so overly pushy parents don't give way to undersocial kids, :| yet, lets examine the other side of the spectrum. What about those parents that overly spoil they're kids, and i mean the ones that really do it.,
Cave to the child's every demand, do everything for the child, give the child zero responsibility,zero criticism, no punishments,too many rewards. I've been seeing an uptrend of that lately,i might call myself that as not to sound hypocritical, but my father gives me lots of responsablity, to be on my own regularly while he works, chores, cleaning, maintaining good grades and he critiscies and punishes me,so im not hypocriting myself, but living in Sf and the same house for 15 years makes me feel i am. Thoughts? i mean lets swich the spectrum from over-controlling parents to non-controlling parents and how that effects Sociality esspecially in this new generation, as i think that that might be bigger problem than control-freak-parenting causing bad social habits.....
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:36 pm

We have always had over-controlling and too lax parents, most are something in between. Of course style of parenting is dependant on time available, cash to a degree, the parents and the children themselves. What works for one family or one child doesn't work for all but that's always been the case. I think both sets of parents working has changed parenting but I don't think the style is going to have been, overall, any worse or any better then past generations.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:47 pm

Doesn't anyone think that the various control mechanisms society places on the young people are destroying and totally changing the way not only the new generation interact but act in general. Personally i took a hammer to my Ps2 this weekend,(saved the games killed the console) the fact was is i was so controlled by the want to go home and play video games that my grades sucked...., to relate without that distraction, now i can focus on my studies more.(yes i know it sounds extreme, but the same thing happened in 8th grade and my GPA went up from 2.5 to almost 3.4, my parents got me new ps2 that winter, and once again my grades went down,) At that i had already proved that gaming(excessively) does totally warp your everyday actions. Now then, to refocus the subject, in the 70's as my father tells me they had games like Pong and Pacman etc, yet in those days you actually had to make a day out of going to the arcade and playing it, nowadays people can sit at home and mindlessly game thru the internet(to say one way) and don't have to get up go out of the house interact with other people face to face while enjoying games, this contributes to the deterioration of social interaction based on that people would rather play games than go hang out with friends, it also contributes in the fact that gaming, and other distractions like Iphones, ipods etc.. though they have their uses, are not meant for a generation(10-20) lets say ,that has not experienced what real responsibility is(holding down a job, working, having a kid, raising a kid, getting a higher education Etc.) basically anything that requires a major devotion of time and effort to accomplish. This and also the fact that at least i feel i experienced that the new generation has no concept of the word "moderation," they always (including me ) want to have fun and i caught myself before i went too far.(i hate to use personally experiences however recent ,yet i think it's a good example)
Then also we must consider the fact that the new generation myself included, has no desire to be aware of the world and its events,people, things, and how they as individuals effect it or for that matter the history of the world. Due to this social interaction at least in America(i tend to think) has become much watered down to trivial and small events taking center stage in person to person interaction rather then, major global effecting events that are important. if social interaction were improved to a level where everyone was educated on proper(etiquette) person-person interaction like what's appropriate in a conversation(whatever the topic) and what's not, as well as the minimalizing of ready on hand materials to avoid the easy way of non-personal interaction(emails,texting etc) then people in general would have more meaningful conversations more social and worldly awareness of their surroundings as well as better social as a group interactions. To exemplify the last statement, how many strikes in Europe in general did we hear of in 2010 as compared to America, many more, France, Britain,Germany,Spain, most recently in Belarus and spilling over into a revolution in Tunisia, What this says is that In the European and developed african nations(ill throw in Argentina and Bolivia for good measure.So south America too) their is better social cohesion amongst members of certain classes as well as greater political awareness amongst the non-ruling class in general. Though america also suffered much(maybe not as much) in the "Great Recession" there were very few major or even local strikes,(most notably the NUMI worker strike in The Sf bay area) yet nothing compared to those strikes in Europe.
it is due to social distractions and the more commonality of such things that american social unity which was also reflected on the political level (republicans in 2010 election) is so shattered causing in my view devolving of people and government interaction, and reemphasis on person to person interaction.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:30 pm

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: Doesn't anyone think that the various control mechanisms society places on the young people are destroying and totally changing the way not only the new generation interact but act in general.


Change certainly but the story of the human race is that of adaption. You talked about it being a shame that letters were dying out but once upon a time an older generation probably thought that this was wrecking the way young people communicated. Technology isn’t all bad, for example saying friends that live abroad is far more possible through flying etc. Also people come in to contact with different cultures and the like on internet, I learnt so much about cultures from being on this board!

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: Personally i took a hammer to my Ps2 this weekend,(saved the games killed the console) the fact was is i was so controlled by the want to go home and play video games that my grades sucked...., to relate without that distraction, now i can focus on my studies more.


Of course there have been times when games have taken over my life and affected my grades, but so have novels, my social life and many other things. In short finding a way to procrastinate is not difficult and a game console is just one way of doing it. I agree that when you are obsessed with something it is a negative, but everything has its use in moderation. Testing your will power by having the console there but not using it would be far better for you in the long run than just wasting money.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: Now then, to refocus the subject, in the 70's as my father tells me they had games like Pong and Pacman etc, yet in those days you actually had to make a day out of going to the arcade and playing it, nowadays people can sit at home and mindlessly game thru the internet(to say one way) and don't have to get up go out of the house interact with other people face to face while enjoying games, this contributes to the deterioration of social interaction based on that people would rather play games than go hang out with friends,


Don’t know about anyone else but I have some great memories of sleepovers playing FIFA for hours and hours with my best mates. Here at university when I play games it is generally COD with my mates. I, like most people I expect, enjoy computer games most when I’m playing with other people. In fact I can’t think of many occasions when I’ve turned down a chance to go out to play a game.

It’s like I said in my first post; you’ll always have some people who are naturally social and those who aren’t. Those who aren’t will always find an excuse for not socialising; it just happens that for this generation it is gaming.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: it also contributes in the fact that gaming, and other distractions like Iphones, ipods etc.. though they have their uses, are not meant for a generation(10-20) lets say ,that has not experienced what real responsibility is(holding down a job, working, having a kid, raising a kid, getting a higher education Etc.)


Why not? How many employers do you reckon would hire someone without a phone? You learn through all things. I still believe that the Pokémon games did more for my reading skills (and other things like elements and logic) than my infant school education ever did. Once again technology in moderation is a positive.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: Then also we must consider the fact that the new generation myself included, has no desire to be aware of the world and its events,people, things, and how they as individuals effect it or for that matter the history of the world.


I doubt that’s our generation, I think that’s fairly common. I would imagine most young people whenever their born are more interested in their own experiences then the wider world. Besides its only through technology that we actually know about the wider world, until radio few had any clue what went on outside their local area. People generally only care about what they feel directly affects them and who can blame them.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: Due to this social interaction at least in America(i tend to think) has become much watered down to trivial and small events taking center stage in person to person interaction rather then, major global effecting events that are important.


That’s because they bore people, much like real politic bored farmers and the peasants far back into time. Very few have cared about what goes on beyond their own lives and so it will continue.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: if social interaction were improved to a level where everyone was educated on proper(etiquette) person-person interaction like what's appropriate in a conversation(whatever the topic) and what's not, as well as the minimalizing of ready on hand materials to avoid the easy way of non-personal interaction(emails,texting etc) then people in general would have more meaningful conversations more social and worldly awareness of their surroundings as well as better social as a group interactions.


No. The best conversations I have, based on your criteria, are ones I have over the internet with really intelligent people who do care. If you took away the forums than the level of conversation would decrease worldwide.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote: To exemplify the last statement, how many strikes in Europe in general did we hear of in 2010 as compared to America, many more, France, Britain,Germany,Spain, most recently in Belarus and spilling over into a revolution in Tunisia, What this says is that In the European and developed african nations(ill throw in Argentina and Bolivia for good measure.So south America too) their is better social cohesion amongst members of certain classes as well as greater political awareness amongst the non-ruling class in general. Though america also suffered much(maybe not as much) in the "Great Recession" there were very few major or even local strikes,(most notably the NUMI worker strike in The Sf bay area) yet nothing compared to those strikes in Europe.


The reason we have strikes in Europe are because are rules make it impossible to sack someone for striking unlike the far more hard-line rules in the USA. Besides strikes aren’t generally good things. Read up on the Winter of Discontent before you start calling for them.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:37 pm

I agree with you in regards to games becoming an apparent distraction in just about any teen or even adults (raises hand) life.

Personally, when I was in H.S. I made sure that I did my homework first thing when I got home or during the small amounts of free time I had at school. It enabled me to play games to my hearts content during those days. I pretty much had a 95 in the 10th grade and and 88 and 86 in both the 11th and 12th grades, even with all the gaming. In the end, I always placed my grades over gaming or just about anything for that matter (but it certainly was hard not thinking about it during the process).

I would say its a bit harder to stretch myself now with more responsibilites i.e. wife, children, career. Though I'm still young in my 20's, I never really gave it much thought before regarding the added responsibilities (and I'm happy about each one) and how they would take away from things i.e. working out, playing games, occasional solitude. My children are small so I can't throw around a football or teach them how to play some other sport yet. Well except for my daughter, but she likes ballet, gymnastics, and every other thing a pretty princess could love. :lol:

I guess the advantage is that they love playing games (especially the Wii) so that is one deterrent (picture a 4 and 2 year old trying to play Mario Kart). But I would like for them to get out and play and not become hermit crabs. Though I was known as video game brain as a child (because I not only attributed much of my time to gaming but I also was able to beat just about anyone in any game), I was outside extensively playing sports and hanging in trees. Times are truly different with the technological level we as a world have currently attained.

But I digress, I would say if smashing the game helps you out with grades then more power to you. I just hope your parents don't mind dishing out the funds to replace it.

There are so many factors to be touched with this thread.

Before I posted, I noticed that Sun Fin posted -- I do agree with his statement regarding 'Adaptation and the Human Race'.

EDIT: I'm partially incoherent right now. This is the third post I had to correct poor grammar for today, and I'm sitting in front of my desk at work right now considering calling it a day.
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Re: Sociality In the New Generation

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:24 pm

What an excellent analysis Sun Fin and Zhuanyong.....
Sun Fin wrote:Change certainly but the story of the human race is that of adaption. You talked about it being a shame that letters were dying out but once upon a time an older generation probably thought that this was wrecking the way young people communicated. Technology isn’t all bad, for example saying friends that live abroad is far more possible through flying etc. Also people come in to contact with different cultures and the like on internet, I learnt so much about cultures from being on this board!

Yes, you're right and technology isnt not all bad but which one weighs more in society today? I'd say the good we have it but its really confusing to have to judge right and wrong on that and it is a major global ongoing arguement. My take is in excess use of technology is bad, good purposeful and knowledge gaining use is good, for the effect on everyday life that is.
I also agree adaptation is the way forward, as it always has been throughout history and in all fields, military, education, government etc.Im not saying its bad either, but shouldn't we help those who have not adapted to move forward, leaving them behind is just wrong.
Don't worry my dad we'll buy me a computer next time, he already knows i dont want another ps2,....... yeah it is waste of cash, but its done and you cant go back.
Sun Fin wrote:Don’t know about anyone else but I have some great memories of sleepovers playing FIFA for hours and hours with my best mates. Here at university when I play games it is generally COD with my mates. I, like most people I expect, enjoy computer games most when I’m playing with other people. In fact I can’t think of many occasions when I’ve turned down a chance to go out to play a game.

It’s like I said in my first post; you’ll always have some people who are naturally social and those who aren’t. Those who aren’t will always find an excuse for not socialising; it just happens that for this generation it is gaming.


You see thats good, your making it a day in which all of you can gather together and talk and enjoy games, and that's great.
I'm refering those people who use avatars on games like COD, World of Warcraft, and only communicate with in game people like that, they call "friends" people they meet in game online without knowing them in reality, thats what ticks me off, and they call it socializing,tch yeah right, what you and your university mates do Sun fin(no pun intended) thats socializing!
Not much more to say....... Education can be found from anything and everything(many philosophy books state that) so yeah, i mean i learned as i toddler good english because my parents read to me every night as a baby... so i agree. Strikes, well that could be whole other subject and yes im not well versed on it..... it really depends on how you organize them, like Gandhi did ,or like the Workers did in russia 1917....It all depends on the leader and the mentality
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