Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:29 pm

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New Character Suggestions:

1.) Lady Liu: Lady Liu was one of the wives of Yuan Shao and an interesting figure. She was known to be extremely jealous and ruthless. She also favored Yuan Shang highly and may have been responsible for persuading Yuan Shao to make Shang his heir. She evidently killed several of Yuan Shao's concubines and burned their faces upon Yuan Shao's death. Eventually she was captured by Cao Cao's forces and thereupon introduced Lady Zhen (Zhen Ji) to Cao Pi.

I feel like Lady Liu is the perfect candidate to make into an oujo type of character. She can be wealthy, noble and greatly condescending to those around her, especially those of lesser status. She is the type of female character in Dynasty Warriors that I could see wearing a crown and a cape, as if she was a princess. I feel that they should develop a friendship between her and Zhen Ji based on mutual interest. Additionally, I feel like Koei can do a lot with the historical aspects of her character. In the game, I think they should make it so that at times when Yuan Shao mentions a female character (e.g. "Capture that woman! She would be a fine addition to our great forces!") Lady Liu can respond with vehemence, deciding on her own to try to kill said character instead. As a whole, she would have a great dislike for all the other female characters in the game except Zhen Ji. Lastly, I think that Lady Liu should dote heavily on Yuan Shang, who she regards as "cute," sometimes to the latter's embarrassment. Of all the female characters Koei could add, I think that Lady Liu could contribute significantly to the game. She's not only connected to some characters already in the game, such as Zhen Ji and Yuan Shao, but she also would have substantial connections to Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang should they be added. I also feel that she is a significant figure historically, unlike a lot of the other female characters that Koei often adds.

Weapon Idea Flower Spear (a fire lance and firecrackers): Completely anachronistic, but this game also has rockets, bombs and a cannon so it is not that farfetched. The weapon is a small polearm that she can hold and twirl around in one hand, but below the spear head is a container which can shoot projectiles that explode, like a gunpowder weapon. Additionally, she carries various fireworks in a hidden pocket...somewhere...which she can use for charge attacks. The fireworks explode in mid-air and can spell out words or make shapes at times, which then rain down upon foes. Musou Quote: "Kneel before my exalted presence, or perish!"

2.) Yuan Shang: Yuan Shang was the youngest son of Yuan Shao and was purportedly handsome. He was ultimately favored by Lady Liu and Yuan Shao over Tan for the succession. Immediately he had to wrangle with Cao Cao and, along with Yuan Tan, put up a stiff resistance at Liyang. Though it is unclear who won this battle, eventually Cao Cao's forces drove the Yuans back and were successful. Afterward, however, Cao Cao withdrew and Yuan Shang and Yuan Tan openly warred with one another. Yuan Shang was victorious in this conflict, but Yuan Tan desperately made an alliance with Cao Cao which led to the undoing of both brothers. Yuan Shang was forced to flee to You province and then to seek the protection of Wuhuan allies. After Cao Cao defeated the Wuhuan at White Wolf Mountain, Yuan Shang was further compelled to flee to Liaodong. Gongsun Kang of Liaodong, however, killed Yuan Shang and sent his head to Cao Cao.

In the game, I feel that they should make Yuan Shang a young-looking naive idealist. Unlike Yuan Tan, he would have no immediate enmity toward his brother. Yuan Shang's personality would be defined by a belief that Cao Cao is a genuinely evil adopted descendent of eunuchs, that he massacres civilians and does other things befitting of a brute instead of an esteemed nobleman. He would also buy into all the Yuan propaganda and conversely believe that his clan is full of great men that can do no wrong. These beliefs would cause him to resist Cao Cao to the bitter end and react with consternation when Yuan Tan allies with him. Whereas Yuan Tan values primogeniture, Yuan Shang would value the merit of the Yuan clan. He would frequently try to distinguish himself, albeit for his own merit instead of his connection to Yuan Shao.

Weapon Idea Energy Palm: A fist type weapon, but a large focus on it is shooting energy blasts, beams and balls DBZ style. He can also make barriers that absorb projectiles and, by waving his arms, draw sigils as well. Musou Quote: "By my own hand, I shall bring an end to tyranny!"

3.) Yuan Shu: Yuan Shu needs no explanation as far as history. We all know who he is and why he's great. :lol:

This might sound surprising: I think that Yuan Shu should be part of Yuan Shao's story mode. Like Xiahou Ba and Guo Huai, however, he would have a more notable role in the "hypothetical" story mode than in the historical one. In the historical one, he would break with Yuan Shao early and stay in opposition to him until his eventual death. I will develop this idea more in my next post concerning my ideas for Yuan Shao stages.

In terms of personality, I suggest that they make Yuan Shu extremely two-faced. In cutscenes, he would wear a smile and act sincere and helpful in interactions with other characters. However, the player would be able to hear/read his inner thoughts which would contrast markedly with what he says and how he acts. His inner monologue would reveal that he is an ambitious, devious schemer who has no great love for Yuan Shao, Sun Jian and others and will do whatever it takes to grab the Imperial Seal and take power. He will be the most critical character in Yuan Shao's hypothetical route, inadvertently helping Yuan Shao beat Cao Cao at Guandu.

Weapon Idea Scepter Sword (Cane Sword): Seemingly an innocuous cane with a snake handle, but sheathed within it is a sword. This weapon is a manifestation of Yuan Shu's two-faced personality and hidden ambition. The blade is mostly used for normal attacks, but the snake end has special properties for charge attacks. One charge attack involves the snake opening its mouth and shooting venom which does instant damage to enemies as well as poisoning them over time for a duration (it can be guarded though). In his R1 musou, the eyes of the snake gleam and petrify one enemy in front of him, doing damage and ignoring guard as well as leaving the enemy temporarily petrified thereafter. A tongue like thing can also come out of the snake and wrap around opponents to deal with guarding. Musou Quote: "I'm sorry, but you should probably go now. [Inner Voiced Thought: SO DIE!]"

Image: http://www.edgesofreality.com/image_man ... MBNAIL.jpg

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Optional: Yuan Tan and Gongsun Zan. Yuan Tan could serve as a foil to Yuan Shang, being overconfident about his "firstborne" status and likelihood to succeed to be the head of his clan. Gongsun Zan would be a good idea to add, albeit purely as an enemy of Yuan Shao's. Zan would have no playable role in the Yuan Shao storyline.

Yuan Tan Character Concept: Although not necessary, Yuan Tan could help expand upon the story further. Tan would have a high opinion of himself and believe that since he is the firstborn son of Yuan Shao, it is his birthright to succeed his father. He would dislike his younger brother strongly and try hard to prove himself superior. Ultimately they would come into conflict if Yuan Shao dies (historical route).
Last edited by Jordan on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Story Mode: Now that I've listed the characters I think should comprise Yuan Shao's faction, here is my suggestion for stages. In each one, I will suggest which characters the player would control. This assumes that Dynasty Warriors follows the framework it developed for Dynasty Warriors 8. I personally think that this framework is the best one they have come up with in the series. While the story in DW8 itself was a bit worse than in DW7, the concept of branching routes was fantastic.

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Yuan Shao's Initial Stages

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Hu Lao Gate: This stage is familiar to everybody so requires little explanation. I suggest that Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu and Lady Liu be playable in this stage.

Yuan Shu: Yuan Shu's story would focus here on transporting supplies to Sun Jian. Outwardly, Yuan Shu would claim that there are no issues with supplies, while inwardly, Yuan Shu would believe that Sun Jian was untrustworthy. He would therefore decide to not send supplies and instead take matters of the battle into his own hands. Eventually Sun Jian would confront Yuan Shu and Yuan Shu would finally gain a more favorable impression of him, deciding to finally resume transporting supplies to him. The two would get along thereafter and become closer allies. They would both agree that Yuan Shao is unsuited for the task of being grand commander of the allied forces after several of the allied forces' plans backfire. As with the other characters, he could complete the stage normally by killing Dong Zhou or help with Lady Liu's mission, which I will describe below.

Yuan Shao: Yuan Shao's role in the stage would focus on him being the grand commander and directing and leading segments of the army personally, especially in conjunction with Cao Cao and Liu Bei. He would go through the usual Hulao Gate stuff of killing Hua Xiong and gradually advancing upon Luoyang. Eventually, he would also be asked to rescue Lady Liu after she gets herself into a bad situation.

Lady Liu: The stage would start out normally for Lady Liu but eventually divert into something different. At some point in the stage, Yuan Shao would comment on Lu Bu being a major threat. Afterward, however, he would note that Lu Bu seems to be protecting a beautiful dancer named Diaochan. He would state that the allied forces should capture Diaochan to force Lu Bu to stand down. This would make Lady Liu completely livid, especially upon hearing that a mere dancer girl is "beautiful" and of any interest to her husband. You would then have a choice between completing the stage normally by defeating Dong Zhou or going after Diao Chan.

Should you choose the latter, Lady Liu would take matters into her own hands and decide to use risky side roads to sneak into Luoyang and slay Diaochan instead of working with the allied forces. Despite running into a few traps/ambushes/bandits possibly?, she would eventually reach her target and, after some dialogue and a battle, kill her. This will cause Lu Bu to become completely enraged and charge after Lady Liu, but Yuan Shao will see this as an opportunity to seize Luoyang while Lu Bu is away from protecting Hulao Gate. The conditions of the stage would then change to luring Lu Bu away from the battlefield to a certain escape point.

Upon victory of this condition, a cutscene will occur whereby Lu Bu is about to catch up and swing his halberd at Lady Liu but his arm is suddenly wrapped in several chains and he is restrained by about a dozen soldiers. It will then be revealed that while Lu Bu was chasing Lady Liu, the allied forces killed Dong Zhou and seized control of Luoyang. Lu Bu will be captured by Yuan Shao's forces and be given the option of surrender or death. Begrudgingly, Lu Bu would decide to work for Yuan Shao, but he would note that someday he will have his revenge on Yuan Shao's wife.

* Condition: The * condition would be unlocked by either playing as Lady Liu and fulfilling the noted mission of killing Diaochan or by playing as the other two characters and rescuing Lady Liu once she gets into a bad position. The stage is completed normally by simply killing Dong Zhou instead of bothering with Lady Liu's mission. Fulfilling the * condition changes the Battle of Changshan: In this battle, Lu Bu will be working for Yuan Shao directly instead of helping him as an ally.

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Battle of Yangcheng: The battle of Yangcheng was fought between Yuan Shu's officer Sun Jian and several of Yuan Shao's officers. In Dynasty Warriors, I recommend it be turned into a more grandiose encounter pitting Yuan Shao and his ally Cao Cao against Yuan Shu and his ally Sun Jian. Yuan Shao, Lady Liu, Zhang He and Zhen Ji are playable in this one. Fulfilling bonus conditions unlocks a stage where you rescue Yuan Shu at a later time. Lady Liu becomes jealous of SSX in this stage while Zhen Ji remonstrates with her mother-in-law to control her temper and ferocity.

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Battle of Jie Bridge: The battle of Jie Bridge was considered a turning point of sorts in the conflict between Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan. It was one of the more famous battles of the period and ended in Yuan Shao's victory. I suggest Yuan Shao and Zhang He and Zhen Ji be playable in this one, and Zhang He will possibly usurp Qu Yi's historic role in the battle.

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Battle of Beihai: This is a campaign to bring about an end to Kong Rong's independence. However, since Kong Rong is a descendent of Confucius, he is well liked throughout the land and receives help from others such as officers of Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Taishi Ci. Yuan Tan is introduced in this stage and is the main character. Yuan Shang is playable as well. The stage would take place in a coastal area and ships would play a role. A few themes would be introduced in this stage that are important to the story. One is the notion that Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang frequently butt heads and disagree with one another. Another is the importance of family lineage, which Yuan Tan cares about when convenient but doesn't care about in the case of Kong Rong being a descendent of Confucius.

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Battle of Changshan: This is the fight where Yuan Shao beats the Black Mountain (Heishan) Bandits and Gongsun Zan. The stage would differ depending on if you fulfilled the requirements at Hulao Gate earlier. If you did, Lu Bu is an officer of Yuan Shao's. If you didn't, Lu Bu is an ally of Yuan Shao's. This difference changes the progression of the stage. If you did not fulfill the requirements of that stage, the stage ends when you beat Gongsun Zan and several of the BMBs.

If you did fulfill the * requirements at Hulao, however, Yuan Shao and Lady Liu will decide after beating Gongsun Zan that Lu Bu is an untrustworthy vassal because he bears a grudge against Lady Liu for killing Diaochan. Thereupon, the stage will continue after Gongsun Zan and the BMBs are defeated. Yuan Shao and Lady Liu will wait until Lu Bu is drunk in his camp and then decide to kill him before he becomes a problem. Lady Liu will have special dialogue with Lu Lingqi.

Despite their best efforts, Lu Bu will be injured and not killed from the surprise attack. He will just barely manage to escape on Red Hare but will swear his revenge against Yuan Shao in the future, altering the Battle of Guandu. His injuries, incidentally, force Lu Bu to spend his time recovering. In this hypothetical scenario, he doesn't take over Yan or Xu. Instead, he decides to gradually build up a force of his own in the Northeast to seek vengeance against Yuan Shao.

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Save the False Emperor: This is a bonus stage unlocked by fulfilling conditions at the Battle of Yangcheng. It is important for unlocking the hypothetical Guandu. The goal of this stage is to rescue Yuan Shu in exchange for the Imperial Seal. The story will mention how Yuan Shu had proclaimed himself Emperor but his regime fell apart. Under attack from numerous enemies, including Cao Cao, Sun Ce and Liu Bei, Yuan Shu decides to escape to his relative Yuan Shao in exchange for handing over the Imperial Seal.

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Battle of Yijing: This is the final campaign against Gongsun Zan, and if you take too long Cao Cao will also start to send reinforcements to harass Yuan Shao as well. Yijing is a near impenetrable fortress surrounded on some sides by moats and on other sides by tough walls with sentries and siege equipment. Yuan Shao and Yuan Shang will be playable in this one.

Yuan Shao and Tan will defeat some generals outside of the walls on one side of the map. They will then run into the issue of the moats on this side of Yijing. Yuan Shao will try to create bridges to cross the moats, but these will be destroyed. Yuan Tan will suggest swimming through the moats and scaling the walls, but a private will warn that moats tend to be places where waste is discarded and Yuan Shao will adamantly poo-poo the idea. :lol:

On the other side of the map, Yuan Shang will be fighting some of Gongsun Zan's generals making a sortie. The fighting will take place on farmland. After Shang defeats them, the generals of Gongsun Zan will set fire to the farms as part of a scorched earth strategy. The rest of Gongsun Zan's forces will turtle up behind high walls and deploy siege weapons to harass Yuan Shang's forces on the ground, making advance impossible.

Eventually, the Yuans will decide to regroup together. They will share their experiences and later Yuan Shang will share his opinion on the battle, stating idealistically, "Gongsun Zan has burned his own peoples' farmland and destroyed their livelihood. If we cannot attack him from above, we should encourage the people to rebel against his tyranny and thus attack him from below!" Yuan Shao will ignore practically everything Yuan Shang has said, however, but pick up on the last bit, remarking, "Attack from below? What a brilliant idea, Shang, as befitting a member of the Yuan family!" The forces of Yuan Shao will then decide to dig tunnels underneath the walls on the non-moated side of the map and then sap the walls of Yijing. Ultimately, this leads to victory.

At the end of the battle, everybody will be enamored of Yuan Shang. Lady Liu will be pinching his cheeks, Zhang He will comment on how he is such a beautiful and splendid lord while Yuan Shao will praise him highly for his contributions to the battle. Tan will watch the scene from a distance seething in frustration.


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Battle of Guandu: This is the turning point in Yuan Shao's story and is different depending on the historical or hypothetical route. You can play as Yuan Shao or his sons. Wuchao is initially hidden from the map and cannot be entered in the historical route. If you fulfill all the hypothetical conditions, Yuan Shu will become playable as well.

Historical: Yuan Shao orders a direct attack using siege towers and other devices. Guan Yu kills Yuan Shao's officers Wen Chou and Yan Liang, lowering morale. Nonetheless, Cao Cao's frontline outside the castle crumbles. As victory for Yuan Shao seems certain, a sneak attack by Cao Cao aimed at Wuchao is revealed. Wuchao is overwhelmed and Zhang He, who is stationed there, defects to Cao Cao. Yuan Shao's morale plummets as he runs out of supplies. Eventually he is forced to flee the field as his officers defect and his troops lay down their arms. Yuan Shao dies in the aftermath of the battle out of frustration from losing.

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Yuan Shao's True History Route

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Battle of Liyang: Yuan Shao, frustrated and grieved about his defeat at Guandu, becomes sick and dies. Lady Liu, on his deathbed, persuades him to allow Yuan Shang to be the heir. Yuan Shang succeeding his father is generally agreed upon by the Yuan family vassals. The decision is reinforced when Shang announces that he will share power with his brother Yuan Tan as this would be the just thing to do.

The mettle of the two brothers is tested as Cao Cao immediately resumes his advance upon the Northeast and Yuan Tan and Shang are forced to work together to defeat him at Liyang.

Over the course of the battle, the two brothers disagree frequently over strategy. Additionally, Yuan Tan becomes increasingly irritated at receiving only a very small amount of troops and supplies from his brother. Yuan Shang's strategy is to capture several bases and use these to construct catapults in order to shell Cao Cao's positions. Yuan Tan's plan is to repay Cao Cao for Guandu by using his own strategy against him: launching a fire attack on the reported location of Cao Cao's supply base. Yuan Shang's plan succeeds, but Tan quickly realizes that Cao Cao's bases are well-defended. After falling into several traps and an ambush by Xu Huang, Tan's forces begin struggling and seek aid from Yuan Shang. Shang hurries to Tan's aid and helps him overcome his enemies. Ultimately the two of them together are able to drive back Cao Cao.

In the aftermath, Yuan Shang congratulates Tan on their joint victory. Tan angrily rebukes him. Tan claims that Shang did not give him any troops to resist Cao Cao or carry out his own plan of action. He states that they could have decisively defeated Cao Cao once and for all if his raid had worked. Shang tries to find something to say, but before he can respond, Tan angrily stomps off.

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Battle of Ye: At Liyang, the two brothers successfully defeat Cao Cao and his forces after a protracted struggle. However, Cao Cao's forces are unrelenting and Cao Pi leads his own army to try to take the Yuan family capital of Ye. The stage begins with Yuan Shang, Zhen Ji and Lady Liu being forced to repel forces led by Li Dian, Yue Jin, Yu Jin and directed by Jia Xu. Zhen Ji mentions feeling nauseous and Lady Liu expresses some concern, asking where her husband Yuan Xi is. Zhen Ji notes that she does not know, but states that it is more important right now for them to deal with the lowborn louts in front of them.

During the battle, Shang repeatedly asks his brother Tan for aid. Unfortunately, Tan remains in his castle of Pingyuan, unmoving. Lady Liu warns Shang that Tan probably harbors sinister intentions and that Shang should kill him. Zhen Ji argues that the two should try to sort out their differences because only a united Yuan clan can defeat Cao Cao. Shang chooses to believe in his brother and not press the issue. He decides that the most important thing to do is fight the enemy in front of him.

Upon defeating the initial Wei assault, Cao Pi appears in the Wei main camp and Lady Liu comes up with a plan to assassinate him. As the city of Ye is running low on supplies, including military equipment, she is tasked with defeating the Wei general Xiahou Yuan, who is leading a contingent of archers. Defeating him and stealing his equipment, she and a newly outfitted unit of Yuan archers make their way to the top of the castle walls, where they begin setting up barricades to use as additional cover. Eventually, Cao Pi becomes impatient and decides to observe what is going on with the siege himself. A cutscene then plays showing several arrows flying at Cao Pi, with one narrowly brushing past his cheek and missing him. Realizing the closeness of the assassination attempt and the determined resistance of the Yuan family defenders, Cao Pi decides to pull back and "Take Ye through other means. Contact the other Yuan."

Yuan Tan defects shortly thereafter and announces his alliance with Cao Cao. At this point, however, Cao Pis assault has dissipated somewhat. Zhen Ji and Lady Liu are asked to hold Ye while Yuan Shang decides to personally go to deal with his treacherous brother Yuan Tan. Yuan Tan's forces, along with a few reinforcements lent by Cao Cao, are pushed back from the field by Shang after some fighting. Ultimately Yuan Shang defeats Yuan Tan in his own castle of Pingyuan. Upon defeat, Yuan Tan snickers and warns Shang that he has fallen into the trap of Prime Minister Cao Cao: Ye city is in danger. Although Yuan Shang is flustered and wants to deal with his brother's rebelliousness, he reluctantly hurries back to Ye.

Tons of enemy reinforcements appear and surround the city of Ye. As Lady Liu or Zhen Ji, the victory condition remains defeating Cao Pi. As Yuan Shang, it changes to breaking through the encirclement and fleeing to You province to join up with Yuan Xi. Yuan Shang feels that the defense of Ye is hopeless after his brother's defection and that he will need the help of Yuan Xi to fight Cao Cao. Along the road of Yuan Shang's escape route, Yuan Tan appears again with Guo Jia. Defeating them wins the stage for Yuan Shang.

Before Shang leaves, he warns Yuan Tan that the Cao family are dastardly villains who will never allow Yuan Tan to live. Yuan Tan ignores this rebuke and escapes. Shang's words prove to be prescient, however, as when Yuan Tan meets up with Cao Pi, Guo Jia suggests that Tan be executed for both treacherousness and incompetence. Cao Pi agrees and Tan is dragged off to the gallows. Outraged that his aid to Cao Pi went unappreciated and that he had been had, Tan curses Cao Cao and states that the Empire will rebel against him for killing a distinguished scion of the Yuan family.

Lady Liu and Zhen Ji, for their part, are forced to deal with the enemies surrounding Ye. Cao Pi remarks that the archers on the walls remain an eyesore. He orders his soldiers to gather up dirt to build makeshift hills so that he can counter the Yuan family's height advantage. Zhen Ji notices Cao Pi's troops doing something suspicious and marches out to try to stop the plan. Cao Pi's plan can be foiled, but if it is not foiled the topography of the stage changes slightly and numerous Wei archers appear on raised mounds. They begin to shoot down the Yuan archers on the walls and morale plummets. The city defenders shortly afterward give up and open the gates to Ye. If the plan is successfully foiled, on the other hand, Cao Pi decides to take matters into his own hands, charge out and deal directly with Zhen Ji and Lady Liu. Regardless of what happens, it eventually becomes possible to reach Cao Pi and defeat him to end the stage.

Zhen Ji and Lady Liu successfully defeat Cao Pi but thereafter find that Ye is surrounded and Yuan Shang has abandoned them. Anguished, Lady Liu mourns the loss of her husband and the state of things. When she hears of Yuan Tan's execution, she is actually pleased that he got what he deserved, however. Ultimately, she decides that she would rather not resist anymore, seeing it as pointless. Lady Liu states, "Fighting is unfitting of my station, but I was willing to make sacrifices when Yuan Shao was still alive. I no longer want to continue fighting for the Yuan family with Yuan Shao gone, nor will I turn my hand against my clan like that fool Yuan Tan. I deserve better than to die fighting on the streets." Zhen Ji asks, "What shall the great women of the Yuan clan do?" Lady Liu answers, "I will surrender to Cao Cao's son and live out my life in a palace surrounded by servants. Come with me, Zhen Ji."

Resolved, Lady Liu introduces Zhen Ji to Cao Pi and in uncharacteristic fashion for her given her usual jealousy of women, praises Zhen Ji's beauty and talents highly, stating that they far exceed her own. While Lady Liu opts to retire to a life of peace, she urges Zhen Ji to fight on for Cao Cao but never forget the favors bestowed upon her by the Yuan clan. Privately and in whispers, she tells Zhen Ji to forget about Yuan Xi: he abandoned her first. Cao Pi praises the determined resistance of the Yuan family and hits it off with Zhen Ji immediately, promising to succeed where the foolish successors of Yuan Shao had failed. He states that he fell in love with Zhen Ji while seeing her in action and proposes marriage. Zhen Ji states that she is glad that he was not assassinated, as he is a fine man worthy of her company. They both joke about Lady Liu's assassination attempt on him. Lady Liu responds to this by stating that she will do what it takes to protect Zhen Ji, who she sees like a daughter. Cao Pi then laughingly remarks about how he now faces the greatest foe of his lifetime: a formidable mother-in-law. In the end, Cao Pi orders Lady Liu and Zhen Ji to be treated with lavish generosity. He decides to marry Zhen Ji, having been captivated by her beauty and intelligence. As they are walking off, Zhen Ji furtively grasps her stomach.

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Battle of White Wolf Mountain: Out of desperation, Yuan Shang flees to his brother Yuan Xi. They make an alliance with the Wuhuan and prepare to make a last stand against Cao Cao. Yuan Xi wonders what happened to his wife (Zhen Ji) and brother (Yuan Tan). He notes that he was busy making alliances with the Wuhuan to help Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang, which was why he could not help them at Ye. He regrets that he left his wife to a dangerous fate.

During the battle, Zhang Liao breaks through the Wuhuan's vanguard and surprise attacks by Cao Cao continually cause a loss of morale. As the situation goes from bad to worse, Yuan Shang vows that a villain like Cao Cao cannot win in the end. He decides to continue fighting the war even though the battle is lost. At length, he meets with Guo Jia. He scans the area before asking why Yuan Tan is not with him. Grinning in his usual cunning and subtle way, Guo Jia informs Yuan Shang that the rest of the Yuan family will be joining Yuan Tan soon. This throws Yuan Shang into a rage as he hurls insults at Guo Jia and Cao Cao. Guo Jia shrugs it off, however, and simply states that the Yuans have already lost long ago. The final encounter now begins. Yuan Shang manages to defeat and kill Cao Cao's strategist Guo Jia, disguise himself as a soldier of Cao Cao's by putting on a blue helmet and then flee the field. Guo Jia smiles in his death and notes that he fulfilled his duty to Cao Cao, the Empire and peace.

Historical Ending: Yuan Shang, under a starry night sky, flees with only a handful of soldiers. He vows to the heavens that so long as he draws breath, he will resist Cao Cao. To nobody in particular, Yuan Shang argues that his family will not end here. They will continue to play a prominent role in future generations, and eventually become Emperors and chief advisers in their own right even if the road is tough. To himself, he swears that even if he dies, surely Lady Liu and Lady Zhen will continue to resist Cao Cao. As he leaves, the background shows a shooting star falling ominously.

Yuan Shang is eventually killed, but the game then cuts to the city of Ye some time in the future. Lady Liu is ordering people around while Lady Zhen cradles a baby in her arms. Cao Pi remarks that some day the Han will fall, but their baby will be the next Emperor of a new dynasty. Lady Liu laments that she could not have given birth to an Emperor, but states that at least if Lady Zhen's son does become Emperor, he will have an even better mother. Zhen Ji smiles. However, she nods her head. She states that the Yuan family was truly great and did a lot for her. They could have been Emperors of a new dynasty too, she says, if only they had not fought so bitterly with one another.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Zorkaz » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:14 pm

Very nice ideas. I somehow miss DW4 where you could play Yuan Shao, Nanman and Yellow Turbans.
Although in your scenarios there are a lot of characters that need a unique apperance and TecmoKoei just finished the Jin storyline.
But: Very good ideas!

I still would rather like to see a Yellow Turban mode, where everything wents well, until the state is united and Zhang Jiao and his brothers have to admit that they don't have any ability to rule the country and only drive it into despair. ;)
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:43 pm

I admit that I am asking for a lot with 5 characters.

Lu Bu's DW8: XL story mode adds 2 characters, which was already a big deal.

If I have to slim it down, I would say they should add at least 3 for Yuan Shao: Yuan Shang, Lady Liu and Yuan Shu. I feel that this is fair because Yuan Shu is practically a standalone character with an outsized role in the story far beyond the events of Yuan Shao's faction.

Yuan Shang is a good idea because he allows Koei to explore the events that occurred after Yuan Shao's death. Cao Cao's ultimate conquest of the Northeast, following Guandu, was neither decisive nor easy.

Lady Liu is a good idea because she was the deciding factor, from what I understand, in Yuan Shang becoming heir to Yuan Shao. The fact that she was a violent and jealous woman historically makes her a potentially very interesting character as well. Lastly, I feel like adding her could expand upon the character personality of Zhen Ji, who in recent games has been kind of boring. Lady Liu is one of the more interesting female figures from the era.

Yuan Shu has so much ridiculous potential on his own that he would be worth adding even if he was not a part of Yuan Shao's storyline. Making him a part of Yuan Shao's story, even if it's mostly just in the hypothetical aspects, gives him even more potential. Yuan Shu interacts with virtually every major force in the game (except Nanman, I guess). As far as personality, Yuan Shu practically writes himself. He had the balls to proclaim himself Emperor and was known to be pretty arrogant. Koei likes him and has given him many unique events in the ROTK games, pretty awesome portraits and a hilarious role in Legend of Cao Cao. He is too irresistible not to add.

I feel that both of the other characters I suggested, Yuan Tan and Gongsun Zan, also have great potential. However, they aren't as critically necessary to the development of a Yuan Shao story. Nonetheless, they would improve upon the story quite a bit if added. Gongsun Zan's addition to the game would theoretically be completely separate from the others as he is not a "Yuan family" character but an independent force. Yuan Tan would provide a foil to Yuan Shang and would be one of those characters that differ markedly depending on if you select the historical or hypothetical path. In the historical path, his actions would basically bring an end to the Yuan family. In the hypothetical path, he, Yuan Shang and all the others would all survive.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:59 am

As an enormous fan of Yuan Shao I tip my hat to you sir. Whenever I thought up scenarios for Yuan Shao in the past I focused moreso on the strategists. Personally I favored Guo Tu and Ju Shou as the Devil/Angel perched on Yuan Shao's shoulders and because of Zhen Ji I pictured the conflict of the Yuans told through the eyes of the bystander, Yuan Xi who ever tried in vain to have his brothers see the senselessness of their quarreling.

But you created a full-fledged story making a plausible and lively character out of (I thought hopeless case...) Lady Liu and you focused the conflict directly with the two brothers Yuan Shang and Tan and basically made Zhen Ji into the proxy for Yuan Xi thereby giving her a continual role to play in the Yuan Shao storyline and your conclusion for Zhen Ji and Lady Liu is wonderful and is much more emotionally compelling than to have Zhen Ji jump ship as soon as Cao Pi shows up.

All in all it was a joy to read, your idea to make the "successful" Battle of Guan Du into a Comedy of Errors fits the theme of the Yuan family as they are shown in the games and you've managed to make it convincing and not shoe-horned in. The naivety of Yuan Shang sounds like a nice contrast from Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang personally slaying Guo Jia would definitely turn a few heads, and may I add I loved how you managed to push in Lu Bu and Chen Gong in surprisingly different ways. I am looking forward to reading the complete Hypothetical now that you have it at such a great start.

Also your historical ending... is that sort of hinting that Cao Rui is Yuan Xi's child if I'm reading it right? I had wondered if Koei would play with that idea at all. I still really wish though that Koei chose Lady Yuan for Sun Quan's wife rather than the blank-slate niece of Bu Zhi... talk about a missed opportunity (then again they did the same with Bao Sanniang when they could have chosen Hua Man)
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:39 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I was kind of concerned that the ending idea I had was really cheesy. I had some clearer thoughts about what they should do with Changshan and Hypothetical Guandu but that ending I just kinda pulled out of nowhere. I'm still thinking about what the hypothetical would be like. It will definitely involve final boss Lu Bu. :twisted:

Also your historical ending... is that sort of hinting that Cao Rui is Yuan Xi's child if I'm reading it right? I had wondered if Koei would play with that idea at all. I still really wish though that Koei chose Lady Yuan for Sun Quan's wife rather than the blank-slate niece of Bu Zhi... talk about a missed opportunity (then again they did the same with Bao Sanniang when they could have chosen Hua Man)


I actually hadn't thought of the Cao Rui being Yuan Xi's child angle at all. That's an awesome take though and makes Yuan Shang's speech seem a lot more relevant. I like this idea much better than anything I came up with. It makes the end seem much more interesting. If Koei were to go with that, I'd suggest they drop hints that Zhen Ji is beginning pregnancy during the Battle of Ye, and also have the privates in the camp ask why Yuan Xi is not there at Ye with his wife. Little stuff like that could help insinuate that Cao Pi's "future Emperor" might actually be from the Yuan family, thus validating Yuan Shang's prediction. Whether or not Rui is Yuan Xi's son instead of Pi's would be left a mystery. Given when Ye was taken and when Cao Rui was born, this theory almost sounds plausible.

Side note: I never liked Lianshi either, and Hua Man would be way better than Bao Sanniang if done right.

==================================================

Yuan Shao's Hypothetical Route

==================================================

Yuan Shao's hypothetical route starts at the turning point Battle of Guandu. Several conditions must be fulfilled previously in order for the hypothetical route to be unlocked. At Hulao Gate, Diaochan must have been killed by Lady Liu and Lu Bu must have been captured at the end. At Yangcheng, Yuan Shao must have confronted Yuan Shu. The revised Changshan stage must have been played and Yuan Shao/Lady Liu must have defeated both Lu Lingqi and Lu Bu. Finally, the "Save the False Emperor" stage must have been played, in which Yuan Shao's forces rescue a beleaguered Yuan Shu in exchange for the Imperial Seal.

================================

Hypothetical Battle of Guandu: The hypothetical route is based upon Yuan Shu's appearance at the battle. It is started by talking to Yuan Shu if you're not playing him or, if you're playing him, by talking to Yuan Shao. It requires fulfilling all hypothetical conditions in earlier stages. Also, I did not come up with this idea in its entirety. Specifically, I read the idea of Yuan Shu at Wuchao somewhere else.

Yuan Shu will hear that Yuan Shao has kept his supplies, including the Imperial Seal, at Wuchao. He will tell Yuan Shao that he has a great plan for beating Cao Cao. Yuan Shu's real goal is to divert Yuan Shao's attention while he goes and steals the Imperial Seal. While Yuan Shu leads Yuan Shao and his sons on a wild goose chase on the opposite side of the map, claiming that there are spies of Cao Cao's in that area with valuable information, Yuan Shu will sneak into Wuchao. Unlike in the historical route, Wuchao will be revealed at the start of the battle. After some time, Guan Yu will challenge Wen Chou and Yan Liang to a duel. However, Wen Chou and Yan Liang become suspicious of Yuan Shu and decide to head to Wuchao to see what he is up to rather than engaging Guan Yu.

When Yuan Shu arrives at Wuchao, and afterwards is reinforced by Wen Chou and Yan Liang, they inadvertently encounter Cao Cao's secret attack force. Cao Cao's generals, such as Yue Jin, are amazed that Yuan Shao had reinforced the area so quickly. Yuan Shu and co. and manage to destroy them, thus saving Yuan Shao's supplies at Wuchao. As this surprise force carries several torches, Yuan Shu then decides to make the best out of the situation and launch a fire attack with a few troops against Cao Cao's encampment. Yuan Shu is motivated to do this in order to get revenge against Cao Cao for driving him from Shouchun. Seeing this opportunity and distracted by other events, he temporarily forgets about his original goal of snatching the Imperial Seal. Meanwhile, Yuan Shao and his sons are on the other side of the map still looking in vain for alleged spy activity. :lol: Guan Yu encounters Liu Bei and they both decide to leave the battlefield.

Yuan Shu marches out to begin his fire attack. Half-way to Cao Cao's encampment, however, Yuan Shu blunders by tripping and falling while holding a torch. This sets a fire on the Wuchao side of the map (halfway between Wuchao and Cao Cao's castle) which immediately alerts Cao Cao's forces to Yuan Shu's presence in the area. Cao Cao decides to send some generals to intercept Yuan Shu's few soldiers. Chen Gong, still in Cao Cao's service, admonishes Cao Cao about this, though, and notes that Cao Cao should not ignore Yuan Shao's larger army to deal with Yuan Shu's trifling few men. Cao Cao states that Chen Gong is seriously overestimating Yuan Shao, however, and ignores Chen Gong. Yuan Shao and sons then get the idea to attack Cao Cao's troops from behind as they are marching out to intercept Yuan Shu. Cao Cao's forces outside the walls of Guandu are surprised and thrown into confusion.

The gates of Guandu remain tightly shut however, and despite this small victory, Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu have no idea how to breach the walls. They try tunnels like at Yijing, but Chen Gong suspects something and suggests that Cao Cao dig countertunnels and set traps underground. The underground tunnels are caved in which causes several officers of Yuan Shao to be defeated and the underground entry route into Guandu to be blocked off. This temporarily repels Yuan Shao's forces. Right as Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu consider retreat, a messenger comes noting that Lu Bu has appeared in the north with a huge army. Lu Bu announces that he will personally kill Yuan Shao. Yuan Shao starts panicking, but Cao Cao gets the news and decides that this is the perfect opportunity to crush Yuan Shao. Cao Cao then opens the gates to Guandu and leads his army out in an attempt to pincer Yuan Shao with the help of Lu Bu. Once again, Chen Gong dislikes that course of action. He warns Cao Cao that he should just stay in the castle and let Yuan Shao and Lu Bu fight amongst each other, but his pleas fall upon deaf ears. Yuan Shao and his sons, out of desperation, decide to quickly use the opportunity to enter Guandu, defeat Cao Cao and then shut the walls of Guandu to keep Lu Bu away. They successfully do this, forcing Cao Cao to retreat. Thus, by failing virtually every plan they had in mind, Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu manage to win the Battle of Guandu. :lol:

In the aftermath of the battle, Chen Gong decides that he has had enough with Cao Cao because Cao Cao does not listen to his suggestions. He approaches Yuan Shao, offering to join him. Yuan Shao treats Chen Gong contemptuously, however, and states that he has never heard of the Chen family or Chen Gong. He therefore appoints Chen Gong to a low ranking post. Upset, Chen Gong remarks that his name will be known soon enough. "That's the spirit!" Yuan Shao remarks, not really grasping Chen Gong's meaning. "Work hard for me and you too can be as grand and famous!"

=========================================

Hypothetical Storyline:

After the Battle of Guandu, Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu come to the realization that if they work together, their forces are invincible. Yuan Shao generously offers to share rulership and decision-making powers with Yuan Shu as well as to liberally increase Yuan Shu's estates for his aid at Guandu. Yuan Shu accepts and bows before his brother seemingly satisfied, though inwardly notes it as a temporary arrangement to fulfill his greater ambitions. Inwardly he also acknowledges, however, that he needed his idiot brother's help to deal with Cao Cao.

Reflecting upon his father's decision to make amends with Yuan Shu, Yuan Tan reflects upon his own relationship with his brother. Thereafter, he acts less lukewarm toward Yuan Shang. He eventually decides that Yuan Shang is better as an ally than as an enemy, but that they should mutually strive to outdo one another for the glory of the clan. Jointly, Yuan Shang and Tan propose that their father and uncle press the attack on Cao Cao. Yuan Shu, however, suggests that this would put them in a dangerous position. He states that Lu Bu has gathered up the remnants of the Heishan and Gongsun Zan's forces. Indecisive as to what to do, Yuan Shao decides that he will return to Ye, feast for several weeks and then plan his next move from there. Shao leaves Zhang He, Yuan Xi and Zhen Ji to guard Guandu.

Distantly, Liu Bei and Guan Yu are escaping from Guandu. In the process, however, they are intercepted by Lu Bu. Lu Bu speaks to them, suggesting that they work together to fulfill their goals. Their ultimate goal would be defeating Cao Cao and Yuan Shao and recapturing the capital. In doing so, Lu Bu could enact his vengeance against Yuan Shao while Liu Bei could restore the Han. Liu Bei accepts the offer.

Chen Gong has been appointed as a lowly gate guard at Ye. Terribly disgusted at this low post, he eventually meets a mysterious hooded man with a faint mustache. The mysterious man is masquerading as a simple merchant. The man gives Chen Gong word of the alliance between Lu Bu and Liu Bei. He also describes the vast forces at Lu Bu's disposal. Chen Gong is suspicious and asks why this stranger would tell him this. The stranger says, "Let me answer your question with a question: Are you truly happy as a rank-and-file grunt of the Yuan clan?" When Chen Gong admits that his official rank is pathetic, the mysterious man suggests that they have similar interests and would make good allies. Intrigued and with no great loyalty toward the Yuan family, Chen Gong decides to collaborate with the mysterious hooded man to undermine the Yuans from within.

===========================================

Hypothetical Escape from Ye:

===========================================

In the middle of one night, Chen Gong and a mysterious man conspire with some soldiers to fling open the gates of Ye, surround Yuan Shao's palatial residence and allow Lu Bu/Liu Bei to take over.

The Yuan family awakens to the commotion and most of them realize that they have been betrayed from within the city of Ye. Lady Liu suspects a coup by Yuan Tan. She notes that she has always distrusted Yuan Tan, stating that he is ugly and treacherous, unlike his adorable and valiant brother Yuan Shang. Annoyed, Yuan Tan walks into the room from behind her and declares that he has been there the whole time, he is NOT ugly and he has no idea what is going on. Yuan Shang believes his brother without question. Yuan Shu remarks that regardless of who caused the commotion, the important thing is that they get the hell out of the city. The Yuan family thereafter is forced to fight their way out with a few soldiers. The battle is different depending on which character is selected:

Ye East Side Plot: Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu push their way through the east. Yuan Shao eventually finds Chen Gong and, clueless, berates him as the worst gatekeeper he has ever hired. He fires Chen Gong and tells him to go find employment somewhere else. He notes that, if asked, he would not put in a good word for Chen Gong to his new employer. Before Yuan Shao can continue his diatribe, Yuan Shu smacks him in the back with his cane. Yuan Shao questions why Yuan Shu interrupted his very important and well-thought out haranguing of Chen Gong. Yuan Shu replies, "Did you really think even the most incompetent gatekeeper would fail to notice a gigantic army forcing their way into the city and surrounding our headquarters? He is the man who betrayed us!" Shao comes to grasp the simple sagacity of Shu's words but comments, "Y-Yeah I knew that! I hadn't gotten to the part of my speech where I commented on him being a traitorous ingrate!" Inwardly, Yuan Shu thinks to himself about what a buffoon his brother is. As they are speaking to one another, Chen Gong gathers soldiers to attack. Realizing their predicament, Yuan Shao and Shu stop talking and turn to fight. Eventually, the two of them seemingly kill Chen Gong. Pushing further East, their soldiers run into pit traps with painful caltrops inside them. Xu Shu reveals himself and his strategy, but he is defeated by Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu as well. Finally, the two Yuan brothers encounter Liu Bei. At this point, Yuan Shang receives word of his father's difficulty and rushes from the other side of the map to help him.

In a cutscene, Yuan Shao smacks one of Liu Bei's swords away while Yuan Shu hits him in the arm and causes him to drop the other sword. Both threateningly point their swords at Liu Bei and, in the aftermath, Yuan Shao strikes a pose and tells him to move aside. After this display, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei run up to aid Liu Bei, but Liu Bei motions for them to stop. Yuan Shang approaches Liu Bei and helps him up. Shang then tries to reason with Liu Bei. He states that the Yuan family fights for the people against tyranny. Why should Liu Bei turn against them? Shang further states that Liu Bei should be grateful to Yuan Shao for helping him after Cao Cao forced him out of Xu. Guan Yu praises Yuan Shang, noting that Yuan Shao has a son who is a true man of honor. The three of them eventually allow the three Yuans to pass, but Liu Bei remarks as they leave that they may cross swords again should Yuan Shao oppose the Han. The Yuans leave the city behind them and then decide to escape to the South. They fight their way through several officers before finally coming across Zhang Liao, defeating him and making their escape before Lu Bu can reach them.

Ye West Side Plot: Lady Liu, Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang make an attempt to break through the West of the city. Along the way, Lady Liu occasionally idolizes Yuan Shang's great bravery while ignoring everything Tan does. After some bitter fighting, they reach Chen Gong, who blocks their path. Lady Liu realizes what has happened and heaps abuses on him, asking if this is how a lowly cur repays his benefactors. Yuan Shang remarks that words are wasted on such a cowardly trickster. They only need to knock him out and move on. After Chen Gong is defeated, Lady Liu remarks that she should be fine now and advises Yuan Shang to help his father and uncle.

As Lady Liu proceeds, however, she eventually encounters a group of lady warriors led by Lu Lingqi. "Ugly daughter of a cockroach, you would insolently get in my way again?!" she inquires. Distressed, Lu Lingqi replies, "How dare you! My father is a great man, or at the very least a heroic hercules beetle instead of a cockroach..." Lady Liu does a noblewoman's laugh (Oh hoh ho ho!) before commenting on how both Lu Lingqi and her father are annoying pests to be squashed. As they fight, Lu Lingqi further proclaims that the Yuan family are just like the jewelry and wealth they possess: dazzling but utterly useless in a time of war and chaos. Only her father has the martial skill to triumph over this age, she opines. Eventually, Lu Lingqi is defeated and Lady Liu decides to escape to the South. Zhang Liao shows up and once he is defeated, the stage is cleared.

Upon clearing the stage, the Yuan family members reunite and continue to flee. Chen Gong appears behind them on a horse and tells his army to pursue them. Yuan Shao points his sword at him and yells, "Vile apparation! Depart to the afterlife already!" Chen Gong finds this amusing and states, "Apparition? Ah, I suppose my doppelgangers were defeated. What a pity. What a PITY. However, there was simply no need to put my life on the line to seize control of Ye. This was much, MUCH too easy for a strategist of my caliber." "Gen Chong, I will remember your name and pay you back for this!" Yuan Shao would scream, but then he and the other Yuans would continue their flight. Chen Gong would muse to himself. "Gen Chong? Gen Chong?! Well, I suppose it has a certain ring to it. Yes...YES, I do not care if I am Chen Gong or Gen Chong. Either way, history will know of me as a great conqueror who drove the once proud Yuan family to oblivion. And soon it will know of me as the one who unified this land. With the help of Master Lu Bu and Master Liu Bei, there is no way I can lose now. Gen Cho...Chen Gong is no mere watchman of Ye!"

As a final note, Lu Bu is in this stage to the far north of the city, but does not need to be fought.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby -zhoutai- » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:26 am

If one person can create such a compelling argument/evidence of the merits of adding Yuan Shao/Yuan Shu, why can Koei not see this.

Its frustrating that they moved on to Lu Bu and Jin before fleshing out the Yuans.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:11 pm

-zhoutai- wrote:If one person can create such a compelling argument/evidence of the merits of adding Yuan Shao/Yuan Shu, why can Koei not see this.

Its frustrating that they moved on to Lu Bu and Jin before fleshing out the Yuans.


I thought it made sense myself on the Jin front. Going past Wuzhang with a new faction sent out a message as part of the revamp of 7, it opened up a new story, new narrative, new character options and give everyone something fresher.

Lu Bu... koei seem awfully fond of Lu Bu. Tended to have one of the best romances in the game, was a major figure in both DT games. I don't know if something cultural behind that
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby -zhoutai- » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:02 am

Dong Zhou wrote:
-zhoutai- wrote:If one person can create such a compelling argument/evidence of the merits of adding Yuan Shao/Yuan Shu, why can Koei not see this.

Its frustrating that they moved on to Lu Bu and Jin before fleshing out the Yuans.


I thought it made sense myself on the Jin front. Going past Wuzhang with a new faction sent out a message as part of the revamp of 7, it opened up a new story, new narrative, new character options and give everyone something fresher.

Lu Bu... koei seem awfully fond of Lu Bu. Tended to have one of the best romances in the game, was a major figure in both DT games. I don't know if something cultural behind that


Jin does make sense, sorry if I gave the impression that I thought otherwise. I can forgive the fact that they moved onto Jin before the Yuans, however Lu Bu is different, he shouldn't have been done before these. As stated above Yuan Shu is perfect for Koei's style of character exaggeration! Yuan Shao already has his 'nobility' persona, and Yuan Shu could have a sly snake like persona.

Their thing with Lu Bu stems from the first game where he was seen as a sort of 'boss' character I think.
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Re: Yuan Shao Story Mode Suggestion

Unread postby AxeLordGerardo » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:01 am

Excellent and fully detailed post with tons of fresh ideas, Jordan. You have indeed my praise.

But i have a different opinion about how to manage Yuan Shao story and what should be done in DW.

As i have stated many times before with my very limited English and vocabulary, i am totally against the idea of associating together Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu. I only can imagine them together breaking in the palace killing eunuchs and company after He Jin decapitated head brutally hit the wall of the room in which he was ambushed.

I am agree in include him as a second despot ruler, the former lord of the Sun family members and officers, such as Cheng Pu, Huang Gai and Han Dang. But little more apart from his skirmishes with Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Lu Bu through Ji Ling.
But i repeat, for me, Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu paths are not compatible in any possible way.

As for Jin and Lu Bu, i agree that the romance with Diao Chan and Zhang Liao serving him since the early days has helped him a lot. Omega Force cherish him a lot, in fact he was the strongest warrior of the era. Lu Bu's influence has been crucial for the dual playable character Chen Gong. With him, his lineup is almost complete, only lacking Gao Shun.
Jin, you have to pardon me, but Jin is no other thing that Wei's final act. All of them starting with Sima Yi started under Wei and the shadow of a decadent Wei. I agree that this part of 3K needed to be added, but it only can be tagged as Jin since Sima Zhao and Sima Yan's actions and Campaigns. So it is still part of Wei's story as it is portrayed in various no-Koei games. It is a tasteless kingdom, like the vulture that arrives in the last place to reclaim all the merit without know what is to fight the Yellow Turbans, participate in the 18 lords alliance or suffer the chaos of the time of lords. Yuan Shao goes first than Jin for sure in all of this. (to be continued)
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