Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:24 pm

I agree with Sun Xia - insofar as DW isn't possibly going to be totally historically accurate, they might as well stretch some boundaries for entertainments sake. Like, Zhang He being super flamboyent, Xu Zhu being a bit simple minded, Zhang Jiao being a crazed religious zealot (well.. that bit is probably pretty accurate) and so on.

On the other hand, for a game like RTK, I expect more accuracy, given that it's more historical, more strategy based, and less cartoonish. I hate how Xu Zhu gets 40 INT and like 50 Ldr where a leader of the bodyguard should have 75+ Ldr and at least 60 or so Int.
"Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." - Alexander

"The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
epaminondas146871
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:17 pm

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby patrickrafferty9 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:10 am

Ok maybe I worded that wrong, sorry if I offended anyone but it wasn't my intent.

I think they could of still made his character fun without him being made out to be the fool of the series and Zhang he too.
Is there even any thing to suggest that he was camp?
patrickrafferty9
Apprentice
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby Kong Wen » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:19 pm

patrickrafferty9 wrote:Ok maybe I worded that wrong, sorry if I offended anyone but it wasn't my intent.

I think they could of still made his character fun without him being made out to be the fool of the series and Zhang he too.
Is there even any thing to suggest that he was camp?

Again, I'm not sure why they would need a reason or a historical source to make a character silly, campy, etc. These games are cartoons. They're intentionally ridiculous. It's the same reason all the characters are white guys in colourful armour.

Dong Zhou wrote:Koei are very very bad at avoiding blatant caricature or one note. Get Xu Zhu right, as they did in DW7, and he is a very strong character. Get it wrong as they often have and Xu Zhu comes across as a food obsessed idiot


I wouldn't say they're "bad at avoiding" it, because they're not trying to avoid it, they're embracing it.
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11839
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby SunXia » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:46 pm

I have stated before that I have no problem with Zhang He being effeminate, there is nothing inherently wrong with being so and it doesn't make somebody a bad general!! Many people in history have been flamboyant so I don't see it as an insult to create a character as flamboyant as Zhang He or Zhong Hui!!

In the end, it is a game, a creators of games have always made varieties of characters; Xu Zhu is not the first big silly man and Zhang He is not the first effeminate man!! I certainly would have no interest in playing a game with seventy serious, boring men going on and on about honor or ambition or "benevolence" while having no whims on striking people down!! The point of a game is to be fun, if you want something serious then there are other games for that, DW has never been an accurate depiction and it never will be!!
If becoming enlightened or an intellectual means I must become arrogant and coldly cynical about the world around me then I'd gladly remain a fool for the rest of my life!!

I'm Out4Marriage!!!Are You??

It is a CHOICE!!
User avatar
SunXia
Warrior Princess
Warrior Princess
 
Posts: 6539
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:48 pm
Location: Keeping Evils from this world at bay...with a smile!!

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby patrickrafferty9 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:22 pm

No it doesn't, I have nothing against that either but if it said something about his personality being like that then I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest.
A game can still be fun without making Xu Zhu silly and Zhang He camp, it isn't like the fun times revolve around those two
patrickrafferty9
Apprentice
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:10 pm

I wouldn't wanna play a realistic DW game. Imagine how much that would suck... being one shotted by archers, being one shotted by horses, being incapable of running at sprint speeds for a full hour, being unable to execute crazy awesome spear acrobatics.. etc. I don't mind when they bend reality for entertainments sake. At the end of the day, I'm not very offended/unsettled/[insert bad feeling] about Xu Zhu being a bit dimwhitted, or Zhang He being flamboyent, while I am very amused.
"Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." - Alexander

"The higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
epaminondas146871
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:17 pm

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby patrickrafferty9 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:22 pm

I don't mean that I would like it to be serious because the aim of dw is just to kill everything in your way!
I'm not offended by it either I just think it would be a change to make him act a little less stupid then usual
patrickrafferty9
Apprentice
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:46 am

patrickrafferty9 wrote:Is there even any thing to suggest that he was camp?


There really isn't much sense of any sort of personality in the novel or the histories though there is a passage on him liking music and literature I think. That line may have sparked the flamboyant thing off or koei just wanted a flamboyant character and as a blank slate.

Kong Wen wrote:I wouldn't say they're "bad at avoiding" it, because they're not trying to avoid it, they're embracing it.


I try to avoid the idea they make bad characters deliberately :wink:

SunXia wrote:I have stated before that I have no problem with Zhang He being effeminate, there is nothing inherently wrong with being so and it doesn't make somebody a bad general!! Many people in history have been flamboyant so I don't see it as an insult to create a character as flamboyant as Zhang He or Zhong Hui!!


In fairness, I don't Patrick was attacking the idea of a flamboyant figure but 1) over the top camp, 2) wondering why why they picked Zhang He for that role, 3) making him a joke.

The first Zhang He's were excellent characters, they then took out a lot of the good bits to make a sad sad imitation and an irritating caricature. He is as much of a joke character as Ma "I eat this toast for Justice!" Chao was.
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 15120
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby patrickrafferty9 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:03 am

But didn't most people in the three kingdoms era enjoy music and literature? I'm pretty sure Zhou Yu did
patrickrafferty9
Apprentice
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Why do they make Xu Zhu mentally challenged?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:06 am

I think we're all allowed our opinions on what we like and I personally don't enjoy playing with a slow, stupid Xu Zhu. While that's partly to do with not enjoying slower characters it’s also that I don't enjoy his comments throughout battles and pre-scenes. I'd rather see it replaced by another angle. The same goes for the overly camp Zhang He.
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6778
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

PreviousNext

Return to Dynasty Warriors Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved