New Business Strategy for DW Series

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby GuoBia » Sun May 23, 2010 3:06 am

Dynasty Warriors needs to be more competitive against other games of the same platform.

With the increased cost on a PS3, consumers are less likely to purchase a lukewarm game they see as casual or have only a small interest in. However, as shown by the recent upsurges in sales of popular games such as Final Fantasy XIII or God of War, a highly-anticipated game with even a moderate cult following sells extremely well. Gamers with a personal stake on the game or series are a significant group to tap into. Because the Dynasty Warriors series lacks such a following, it is necessary to create one. The first step is to target a responsive audience. In this case, targeting an audience of young women and homosexual men is suggested. The younger generation would be eager to support a game portraying homosexuality in a positive light for political and personal reasons. The young audience and the homosexual audience have major purchasing power, so if it appeals to them enough they would buy.

It would be too risky to concentrate all of KOEI’s production resources and energy into the Dynasty Warriors series, taking out the possibility of anything requiring extreme efforts. A change that will not drain resources to too large an extent is needed. Therefore, only cost-effective changes are at hand.

Because the Dynasty Warriors series already has a CG and working base, the transition to a heavily homosexual game would be simple and require only more emphasis on the character relationships. A new scripter for the plot and cutscenes would be in order, but this is low-cost compared to the price of redoing the gameplay, coding, or other elements. This is only a superficial change to the game, but these new improvements would attract the desired audience.

One concern is that it would prove necessary to redo over the character designs and to discard previous models and work. However, this it not the case. The current designs already appeal to the homosexual audience. Perhaps an occasional tweaking, such as re-rendering a character to reveal his well-muscled, sculpted torso or removing elements of a character’s armor to make passionate kissing scenes more plausible may be in order, but those are only small changes and stock 3D models are already available for use. Overall, the current characters already look as if they were already in a homosexual-oriented game.

These changes would not affect gameplay, keeping the original target audience of male gamers looking for a traditional hack-and-slash game intact.

Some may argue that straight male gamers would be turned off by the prevalence of homosexual men in the game. But this can be averted by keeping with the idea of ‘manly-men’ characters, such as Dian Wei and Lu Bu, which would convince skeptical straight male gamers that they could still appear to be straight and manly playing the game. Furthermore, there would still be heterosexual pairings, such as the traditional ones of course, the game would also be targeting heterosexual female gamers. The expansion on the romantic plotlines would allow for them to fantasize themselves to be heroines in an adventurous love story, which is the main selling point of badly written romance novels everywhere.

Overall, new life can be breathed into the stagnating Dynasty Warriors series with simple and low-cost changes. It only takes two (or more) men furiously kissing and ardently embracing and rustling cloth hinting at feverish sexual intercourse to revive Dynasty Warriors, and in all honesty, after seeing Dynasty Warriors 6 it will not be all that big a change.



It may sound silly or mocking to you, but it is a perfectly legitimate thought to have. May not be the smartest, depending on what you think.

I hope I am not breaking any rules, but I think the future marketing and aim of DW games is a perfectly legitimate discussion topic. After all, it seems to be lagging behind other KOEI projects such as SW.

If I am still going to get in trouble, can we just say that this is a satire designed to have people think about the DW series falling behind? Basically, it's like "Don't want this to happen? Suggest something."
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Cao Chao » Sun May 23, 2010 3:14 am

My gut reaction to this was an image of the yaoi doujin that are out there of Dynasty Warriors . . . meaning if Koei goes down that route, it is likely be banned in the United States. *shudders*

Honestly though, of the female gamers that are into yaoi . . . will they flock to a hack and slash game? It may be a better seller if you make it a more yuri game. I know I'll be down to see some CGI girl on girl love.

I personally would prefer that Koei not make another Dynasty Warriors or Samurai Warriors. They should focus on their Sanguozhi and Nobunaga's Ambition.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby GuoBia » Sun May 23, 2010 3:22 am

I know, I was trying to see if I could get a few GanLing ones but I didn't want to tread on the wrong side of the law so I didn't.

And yes, have you seen those fanfics? From what I've seen, yaoi is yaoi, especially if it's easy to buy and accessible. That might even be a bonus because younger yaoi-loving girls would ignore the bad gameplay in favor of the cutscenes, which can easily be improved by getting a writer would can actually make a good plot.

But they didn't ban Dragon Age, did they? And that would be more explicit than anything DW would be. Doujin are banned because they are copyright infringements, not because they have large amounts of men having intercourse with each other

Well, we can claim an intersection between female gamers and feminists. And some feminists believe that yuri is essentially degrading etc., so they would boycott it. But have a yurifest in it might attract a significant enough following from straight male gamers (apparently you?) to make up for it. I think quite a few would be attracted to it due to ease of purchase and accessibility, compared to current homosexual-oriented games. The character of Heather in that Fire Emblem was well-received. I think that it might just be a good idea. That would tap into even more of the progressive pool I think.

Either way, DW would be targeting a new loyal audience and would sell better and have a more obvious aim.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Qu Hui » Sun May 23, 2010 8:24 am

GuoBia wrote:And yes, have you seen those fanfics? From what I've seen, yaoi is yaoi, especially if it's easy to buy and accessible. That might even be a bonus because younger yaoi-loving girls would ignore the bad gameplay in favor of the cutscenes, which can easily be improved by getting a writer would can actually make a good plot.

Those fanfics are a prime example that there are already several busloads worth of yaoi fangirls that play DW. There really isn't a need for more, nor do I think Koei will rope in more with this sort of move. Not to mention that it would make those who favor a more historical interpritation angry because it deviates from what actually happened.

GuoBia wrote:But they didn't ban Dragon Age, did they? And that would be more explicit than anything DW would be. Doujin are banned because they are copyright infringements, not because they have large amounts of men having intercourse with each other

The thing is, they didn't make it mandatory in DA, did they? It's the same in certain dating/life simulators- the option is there, but it's all up to the player. If they make it mandatory, then they will probably lose a good portion heterosexual males who are uncomfortable with the idea.

GuoBia wrote:Well, we can claim an intersection between female gamers and feminists. And some feminists believe that yuri is essentially degrading etc., so they would boycott it. But have a yurifest in it might attract a significant enough following from straight male gamers (apparently you?) to make up for it. I think quite a few would be attracted to it due to ease of purchase and accessibility, compared to current homosexual-oriented games. The character of Heather in that Fire Emblem was well-received. I think that it might just be a good idea. That would tap into even more of the progressive pool I think.

This is kind of silly, as yuri manga and anime have been traditionally shojo (i.e. made for girls) in Japan. And why would feminists have a problem with a genre that typically has a realisitc portrayal of female-female relationships?

GuoBia wrote:Either way, DW would be targeting a new loyal audience and would sell better and have a more obvious aim.

There are a significant number of yaoi fangirls in the current pool of DW players. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any yaoi fanfiction or fanart.
Last edited by Qu Hui on Sun May 23, 2010 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun May 23, 2010 9:42 am

Some may argue that straight male gamers would be turned off by the prevalence of homosexual men in the game. But this can be averted by keeping with the idea of ‘manly-men’ characters, such as Dian Wei and Lu Bu, which would convince skeptical straight male gamers that they could still appear to be straight and manly playing the game


I would question how many young men you know :wink: Gay is still an insult that comes up at times and if "should there be female characters" and "why is Zhang He gay" comes up more then enough. It would lose a share of the market, particularly among the younger males who have yet to mature, not sure how sizable that one is. Of course, with the potential publicity, might attract more of the yaoi market...for one game.

It would be too risky to concentrate all of KOEI’s production resources and energy into the Dynasty Warriors series, taking out the possibility of anything requiring extreme efforts. A change that will not drain resources to too large an extent is needed. Therefore, only cost-effective changes are at hand.


If they can't afford the money needed to make the changes, they should drop DW and put the money to their better games.

My objections:

1) After they do it for one game, then what. If the gameplay and graphics aren't good, the stories aren't, why would that market return? It alienates one share of the market, gains another but the same old flaws will put people off in the long term anyway. God of War and FF are successful because they have been great games, several of them, and FF can afford one or two duds. DW had one, maybe two games, were it was very good but it has lost that and stagnated for a long time, a gimmick won't change that. It's putting a plaster on a big wound then needs a lot more.

2) We are dealing with historical characters here. Yes koei has creative license, I really doubt Zhang He was that flamboyant and so on but there are limits. For me, changing a character's sexual orientation is too far for me. Weird sticking point perhaps but there you go. I can cope with a one off like Kessen were it was just going for the ridiculous but had it been series... There are one or two supposed historical homosexual relations, Cao Cao with someone, Cao Rui with Qin Lang, Liu Shan with Huang Hao coming to mind.

3) That the idea is a marketing one. Sorry but when adding things, the first thing should be "does this improve the game? Does it take it in the direction we want to go" not "it's cheap and will gain us a new fanbase without us fixing the flaws". If done with that attitude, I fear it will be a huge disaster and that few will be pleased

I haven't come across too many games with gay characters (MGS, Valkyria Chronicles, the underrated Enchanted Arms) or rpg's that allow same sex relationship (Mass Effect, not played Dragon Age, Morrowind I think). There is a tendency for the homosexual/bisexual men to be flamboyant, not by itself a bad thing but that don't all have to be. So yeah, I don't think adding a gay relationship or two is a bad thing as long as it is done properly and doesn't become a desperate gimmick to avoid issues within the game
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun May 23, 2010 9:48 am

Dong Zhou wrote:
Some may argue that straight male gamers would be turned off by the prevalence of homosexual men in the game. But this can be averted by keeping with the idea of ‘manly-men’ characters, such as Dian Wei and Lu Bu, which would convince skeptical straight male gamers that they could still appear to be straight and manly playing the game


I would question how many young men you know :wink: Gay is still an insult that comes up at times and if "should there be female characters" and "why is Zhang He gay" comes up more then enough. It would lose a share of the market, particularly among the younger males who have yet to mature, not sure how sizable that one is. Of course, with the potential publicity, might attract more of the yaoi market...for one game.


I buy the game for the historical basis. I could live with a few homosexual/bisexual characters such as Liu Bei where I think there is justification for it. But anything beyond that and I'd take my custom elsewhere.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Sun May 23, 2010 4:17 pm

I have my doubts about the wisdom of a niche marketing strategy for a product in the $50 range. But I say what the heck, go for it. It would certainly get press coverage.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby blightmoon » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:58 pm

Maybe she thought too much of herself? Steering more to the left would drive me away from DW, seriously. I mean just seeing Zhange He's image in DW6 already puts me off.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby mrbeate » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:56 am

Don't think Koei will add anything with sexual content. All their games are rather clean.
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Re: New Business Strategy for DW Series

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:33 am

blightmoon wrote:Maybe she thought too much of herself? Steering more to the left would drive me away from DW, seriously. I mean just seeing Zhange He's image in DW6 already puts me off.


what? She thought too much of herself? Steering more to the left? What are you talking about?
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