This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

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This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Butters » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:23 am

I'm sure there are flaws in my logic here, but there are a few things about the DW series that I think would make it a lot more fun (at least for me). This is how I would build a DW game, if I programmed it. Tell me what you think.

1. I'd do away with damage dealing as the standard for difficulty level. Essentially, a particular enemy on a particular board will have exactly the same level, attack, defense, etc, on easy as he or she will on normal, hard, or chaos. Instead, I'd make the difficulty based on how much of a brain the enemies have. (Your enemies and allies would still be stronger depending on specific board difficulty. For example, your enemies may be level 7 on a level 1 board, like Yellow Turban Rebellion, while they may be level 21 on a level 3 board, like Chi Bi.)

For example, if you fight random general X on a random board on easy, he'll never charge at you and never have an aggressive bone in his body. Basically, he'll stand there and let you kick his ass. On normal, he may charge you and start showing a little bit of attacking and blocking, as well as coordinating with the other surrounding soldiers to attack you. On hard, he will get even more aggressive and start whipping out the crazy moves, as well as call in for reinforcements. When it gets to chaos, he'll stick to you like white on rice and pretty much fight you as if the fate of the universe was riding on it, as well as constantly calling for reinforcements, and making things hellish for your allies, particularly your commander.

Also, kind of like what they did in DW6, but more expanded, your allies and enemies would be much more active in using tactics. On easy, your opponents would not do a lot of tactics, if any. They'll basically act like the brain dead AI that we've come to love in most DW games that does things in the most inefficient manner possible. On normal, the AI starts getting the idea that ambushes and surgical strikes may be good ideas. On hard, the AI gets really smart and starts using ambushes, fire attacks, surgical strikes, and charging in all the right ways, as well as attempting to project your next move. On chaos, the AI will utilize every tactic available flawlessly and also completely take into account how you've played the game thus far, trying to figure out your every weakness. Also, the game would already understand how people have generally played the rest of the series, so that information is already at the computer's disposal. In short, the game would be "smart."

To reflect your difficulty level, your allies will always operate as if they were enemies on normal difficulty.

2. I'd keep the skill tree concept from DW6, but I'd add a few things to it. Firstly, I'd make the skill tree part of a larger web, where all the characters connect to one another. For example, let's say Liu Bei is connected to Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, and Zhuge Liang. Liu Bei would first have to fill up his skill tree before he's able to go to someone else's. The other trees would sort of have "locks" on them, like the locks in the Sphere Grid in Final Fantasy X, but once all of Liu Bei's bonuses and abilities were unlocked in his tree, the locks would be lifted. Like in DW6, not all the characters max out to straight 1000s, even when they're all the way leveled up, and it would be the same way in my prospective game, when you max out your own skill tree. But, once you unlock other connected trees, you can get all the bonuses you need to totally max out your numbers. Also, once you get a stat up to 1000, any other bonuses in any tree with that particular stat would already be filled and you'd be able to skip them. As for skills, you'd be able to get any you didn't already have. Obviously, if you already have the skill, it'll be filled as well and you can skip them.

If it wasn't already implied, even once you hit the level 50 ceiling and your numerical stats don't go up anymore, you can still collect levels at +3000 EXP per level or some number, so you can go further in the skill tree.

Also, you would have to use a level to be able to connect to a particular skill tree, but there's also more added benefit. When you connect into another skill tree, you can also have the option of collecting the other character's weapons, using their moveset, and their special. (Before you start a board, you'd have the option of using whichever weapon you wanted from your inventory of eight or so weapons and also whose weapons you'd want to collect on the board. Also, you'd be limited to maybe sixteen abilities or something along those lines, so you couldn't just have everything. You'd also be able to choose which special you wanted before the board started.)

3. I'd keep the Renbu System for the most part, but I'd also make sure there was a variety of charge moves, perhaps a different one per renbu level. Also, I'd make it so you don't lose renbu for running or riding on a horse without Renbu Gait. You'd still lose it if you get the snot knocked out of you though. Probably, I'd change Renbu Gait to making it so you'd slowly gain renbu until you maxed out whatever level you were currently on. Say, if you're in level three at the time you get on the horse with Renbu Gait, you'd max out level three, but it wouldn't go to infinite without your having to fight enemies. I'd probably keep the way the weapons power up from renbu exactly the same.

4. Speaking of weapons, I'd probably have a similar boosting system to the Weapon Fusion system in Warriors Orochi. If you have extra skill tree points, you can cannibalize junk weapons you get and create better ones. Basically, any ability you move would cost a skill tree point and if you want to just boost up a weapon's power, it'd cost a skill tree point per whatever increment would be deemed fair to a limit of a weapon's total power being 110 or something.

5. All characters would not only have musou modes, but have branching ones. Depending on something you do on a particular board, something else may happen. For example, say you're playing as Zhang He at the Battle of Guandu. If you let Wuchao fall, then you defect to Cao Cao's forces and play the rest of the game on Cao Cao's side. If you don't let Wuchao fall, then you play the musou mode as Yuan Shao's side the whole way. Some people may have only two directions and some people may have more. Either way, it would give people incentive to play the musou modes more than once.

6. I'd make multiplayer be not only on a single console, but allow for multiple consoles to be hooked together, or for people to play with or against each other online. It'd be totally viable for a LAN party. Online, if people wanted to play with or against each other, there'd be games where people would have any combination of players. Someone would pick a board and a difficulty and a player combination, such as 2-player, 3-player, or 4-player co-op or 1-on-1, 2-on-2, 3-on-3, or 4-on-4. In competitive games, the game creator would have the option of making it so the board ends if the one team's player characters die or not.

7. I'd keep boards made in the same general style as the DW6 boards, but I'm sure I'd build them differently. The only things I'd probably change would be making the map a little easier to see and I'd make it so a guard captain has a specified number for the HP of the base as opposed to the base instantly falling if he dies. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense if say, Cao Cao is fighting you inside a base, but the base falls if some chump guard captain dies, when Cao Cao could more than compensate for leadership.

8. As for characters, I'd at least have all the characters from DW5 in it. I have no idea if I'd add more or not.

I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting, but these are the essentials. Tell me what you think. =)
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Kongming's Prodigy » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:05 am

Three words: organized troop movements.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Butters » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:09 am

Kongming's Prodigy wrote:Three words: organized troop movements.


I meant to say that more explicitly in #1, but that's one thing I was getting at when I mentioned coordinating with the soldiers. Organized troop movements are definitely something I'd put in.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Kongming's Prodigy » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:27 am

Butters wrote:
Kongming's Prodigy wrote:Three words: organized troop movements.


I meant to say that more explicitly in #1, but that's one thing I was getting at when I mentioned coordinating with the soldiers. Organized troop movements are definitely something I'd put in.

I pretty much just HATE how troops in DW don't "march" so much as scatter and scurry.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Butters » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:32 am

Kongming's Prodigy wrote:
Butters wrote:
Kongming's Prodigy wrote:Three words: organized troop movements.


I meant to say that more explicitly in #1, but that's one thing I was getting at when I mentioned coordinating with the soldiers. Organized troop movements are definitely something I'd put in.

I pretty much just HATE how troops in DW don't "march" so much as scatter and scurry.


I agree. They don't seem to have any urgency in their step either. They act like the third string on the football team and they're standing around waiting for coach to finally give them the go-ahead to jump in.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby MistroPain » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:52 am

Nice list, id definatly agree with all of those but the game will still be repetitive which has always been my issue with DW :(
However, id ask if youd add some sort of strategy or troop organization for your own troops?
Maybe be able to add strategic attacks, set up your own ambushes and etc. The enemy AI can be designed in a way that it'd be able to actually move its front line so that they could fall for your ambushes and all...

And also i think there is one thing missing from your list and that is unique armies :D Ive always wanted this :P
It'd be a great addition cause when you fight Shu your fighting an army completely different to Wei's.
Wei's soldiers would possibly dress up in heavier armours making it harder to kill them off, however, there attacks would be slow and therefore it'd provide you time to attack em. Wu's soldiers would dress up int he lightest armours and instead use speed to keep chains of attacks going on. Shu's were a decent amount of armour and they attack a decent pace... Or something along those lines (Most importantly theyd look different.)
Last edited by MistroPain on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:56 am

I gave up thinking about what I'd change when my list got over 5 A4 pages, it just depresses me as I know that its unlikely any will ever change :lol:.
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby MistroPain » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:58 am

Sun Fin wrote:I gave up thinking about what I'd change when my list got over 5 A4 pages, it just depresses me as I know that its unlikely any will ever change :lol:.

Well thats 100% true!
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Butters » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:01 pm

MistroPain wrote:Nice list, id definatly agree with all of those but the game will still be repetitive which has always been my issue with DW :(
However, id ask if youd add some sort of strategy or troop organization for your own troops?
Maybe be able to add strategic attacks, set up your own ambushes and etc. The enemy AI can be designed in a way that it'd be able to actually move its front line so that they could fall for your ambushes and all...


While I like that idea, I think it would be better for Xtreme Legends. I think DW original titles are meant to be simple enough for the average Joe to be able to pick the game up and play. I think adding an array of tactics would be too complicated for a new player to delve into it.

And also i think there is one thing missing from your list and that is unique armies :D Ive always wanted this :P
It'd be a great addition cause when you fight Shu your fighting an army completely different to Wei's.
Wei's soldiers would possibly dress up in heavier armours making it harder to kill them off, however, there attacks would be slow and therefore it'd provide you time to attack em. Wu's soldiers would dress up int he lightest armours and instead use speed to keep chains of attacks going on. Shu's were a decent amount of armour and they attack a decent pace... Or something along those lines (Most importantly theyd look different.)


Personally, I like the idea of armies being different, but I don't think it should be based on force, but rather their task. For instance, some village elder or something along those lines needed protection and was already slow moving, a heavy armor unit could be deployed to protect him as opposed to the regular grunts. Along those lines, if a unit needed to perform a lightning raid, they'd use light armor and speed to their advantage.

Sun Fin wrote:I gave up thinking about what I'd change when my list got over 5 A4 pages, it just depresses me as I know that its unlikely any will ever change :lol:.


I know how that is. I'm still reasonably satisfied with the DW series though, so far. Now, if we were talking the Final Fantasy series, that'd be a whole different matter...
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Re: This is how I would make a DW, if I was a programmer.

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:08 pm

I still play them and enjoy them, I just try to forget what improvements could be made if I was in charge.
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