Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:38 pm

I'm not a Koei expert, what games have Team Ninja been involved in?
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Death » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Sun Fin wrote:I'm not a Koei expert, what games have Team Ninja been involved in?


Mostly the Dead or Alive series and Ninja Gaiden, but I think they also have been involved in the Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, one of the Dissidia games, and Nioh as well.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:59 pm

Cool and were those games well received? I don't really play games outside of Dynasty Warriors and Warriors Orochi these days!
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby DaoLunOfShiji » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:28 pm

Nioh was extraordinarily popular, but it's not hard when you're just a Dark Souls clone.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Death » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:53 pm

I used to really like the Dead or Alive series, but kinda lost interest in it after 5 came out and you see over $1000 of DLC available :shock:
Most of those games do have good reviews though, and aren't bad, but better if you already like the series, like Hyrule Warriors and Zelda, or Dissidia since I always loved Final Fantasy games, so I guess it just depends what kinda games you like. So I think it might be ok if Team Ninja did take over for a couple of games, as long as they stay away from all that DLC costs :mrgreen:
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Jia Nanfeng » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:02 pm

I love Team Ninja games, especially DOA and Nioh.

And it's true that there's like $1000 of DLC for DOA5, but at least 99% of it is cosmetic. I'm okay with costumes and such being DLC -- it's when gameplay and story elements are hidden behind a paywall that I get annoyed.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:23 pm

DaoLunOfShiji wrote:Nioh was extraordinarily popular, but it's not hard when you're just a Dark Souls clone.


A clone? I hated original Dark Souls for its slow pace combat, lack of story (although lore was provided in items description), lack of cutscenes, very basic noncomplex weapon upgrades. And it's combat is nowhere near the fast level of Nioh, with customizable stances.
Nioh does take a lot from other games. But not Dark Souls, although I haven't played 2 and 3 or Bloodborne. It's been in development long before them anyway.
There are games that have more rights to claim Nioh to be a "clone". First and foremost Onimusha, because of whole samurai vs Yokai. Secondly Diablo, because of the loot, which is a very important aspect of Nioh. Thirdly the Way of the Samurai, because of the whole stances and customizable movesets.
Anyway, Nioh 2 is confirmed to be released. Looking forward, although the whole turn-into-yokai doesn't excite me as much as other players.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Jordan » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:40 am

I was a big fan of Nioh. I can't get into Dynasty Warriors anymore. It just is too much of the same. I tend to hop from franchise to franchise, though, so it's quite possible Nioh2 won't do anything for me either. In a similar regard, I loved Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence and the earlier ROTK games, but ROTK XIII did nothing for me and I've had no interest in NA: Taishi.

I just feel like you can only keep portraying the same era with the same story and the same gameplay so many times. A lot of people obsess over which new characters are going to get in, but they rarely end up mattering anyways. Almost everything worth depicting in the era has already been depicted. I wish they would just wrap up the whole thing with one final big game and then move on. Throw in Jin vs. Wu, maybe even as DLC for DW9, and call it a day. It's the only important omission from the games at this point. KOEI used to make all kinds of interesting historical games spanning many different eras and places. Now it seems like they're being held back by a lack of desire for innovation. They have talented developers working for them, but they're wasting their time trying to be too safe.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Kongde » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:51 pm

Perhaps my input would be most helpful for Toei if they are reading this forum wondering what they can do to improve DW.

I have been a fan of DW since 3. I personally think 4 and 3 are the all time best ones counting to 8. Why? What made 3 and 4 so good? It wasnt just nostalgia. Even going back and playing it today - it still remains a great game. Because at the time, it was extremely innovative and new. The soundtrack on that game? Splendid. It is perhaps one of the greatest sound tracks of all time, I especially like 4's.

But now, having played virtually every DW, it feels like the same story repeating over and over again with little change. Little innovation. And the soundtracks dont compare with how they were. And this is coming from a person who LIKES repetitiveness and doesnt mind staying committed to a single game for a long time. DW8 was actually my favorite newer DW that has released. But they copied heavily from DW4, it is blatantly obvious how much assets and inspiration they used from DW4. Do not take that as a negative, because in fact, it was because it reminded me so much of 4 that I rate 8 the best newer game to play. But there are a few points about 8 that i feel it simply missed the opportunity on to make it not just a good game, but to TOP 4 and every other game theyve made.

So listen up, Toei, if you're reading this. Here are my suggestions for what I would have done with DW8.

DW8's graphics still felt like DW4's. It is overdue that the graphics finally get a do over to something more HD. I am not one to complain about graphics and do not mind poor graphics. Especially coming from the Nintendo 64 age. However, playing the exact same series with little to no graphical changes over 10+ years can certainly, over time, reduce the flare it once had. So work on that!

Next, and DW8 did take advantage of this, elaborate on the Jin era more. With that, I say stick to including Jin from here out.

Next, they need to stop making the same characters extra buffed out. I.e. lu bu and ma Chao. They need to begin sharing that with new characters. And they need to make you bond with each character better. I liked the unlockable levels as well with alternate playouts.

Soundtracks are supremely important. Keep those well and it will do a lot of good.

I quite enjoyed the weapon system of DW8 as well. It was well done. There could have certain features that should make selling and getting rid of lots of weapons easier as going thru 1200 weapons individual can be quite cumbersome.

As a longtime DW player, I seek a great story. If it came between adding a new mode or a more focus on the story/musou mode, I highly recommend focusing on the story mode. Thats where I find my play time is most enjoyable, even if I continue to play later. Dw4 had a wonderful musou/story mode, as did 3. I liked the ability to individually select each character and play as them the entire game. Perhaps, a suggestion, it would be a great idea to encourage replay on story mode by making certain things happen only by playing as a certain character. That way you can beat the story over again for fun and have a somewhat different experience and this alone could make story mode last insanely longer for me and many others. In DW4, I made it my goal to play every character on story mode. One thing I was not a fan of on DW8 was only the option to choose from 3 characters at a time. I much preferred the DW4 way where you could pick any character once you unlocked them (which I also think should be a thing for even more added playtime, unlock characters by playing musou mode) and play thru the whole story as them.

So tl;dr

-improve graphics
-good jin era story and characters
-great soundtrack
-make certain tasks less cumbersome
-unlockable characters by playing musuo/story mode
-buff other characters than just lu bu and ma Chao when playing musou mode
-make unique scenarios for each character you pick in story mode to encourage replay of story mode, even if it's just some new dialogue for that character.
-allow you to pick any character in story mode for each kingdom.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:44 pm

I think Koei should simply stop with both DW and SW at this point. As mentioned in one of the posts above, a Jin vs Wu dlc to wrap things up and...that's it. Wait for 10-20 years at least, and see whether technological advances would allow for something really new.
In the meantime, collaborative warriors-style games with Nintendo, Atlus, etc. will keep the coffers full :)
Ideally Koei could create a completely new game based on one of their non-historical strategies. Gemfire universe should be explored, I believe. But knowing Omega Force, I'm afraid we'll just have reskinned Zhao Yun and Yukimura as the rulers of northern kingdoms or Pluvius having exactly the same moveset as Zhang Jiao :)
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