Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Sun Gongli » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:57 pm

Immersion is one of the things I care fewest about in regards to Dynasty Warriors. I mean, I don't want absurd anachronisms, but I don't care if they make Hulao Gate feel like the real thing or not. I don't care if soldiers stay in authentic battle formations or stuff like that.

This is a game in which a teenager with two fans can kill the mightiest warrior in the land without breaking a sweat.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Ranbir » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:59 pm

There is still one thing that Viking flops in, and thats the free roam, at first i thought it was GREAT, but then after repetitive missions (free these guys then those guys then those guys) to finally attack an enemy was annoying as well as the fact it took quite a while to get from spot to spot with hardly anything to do on the way...


Not so much the free roam itself, but what you can do in that freedom is limited and linear. Which is one thing that has been urged upon the developers from userfeedback. Based on the progression though, the hope is from the userbase is that the step goes to providing the sandboxish Total War campaign with Total Warrior battles.

I mean, I don't want absurd anachronisms, but I don't care if they make Hulao Gate feel like the real thing or not...


I don't think that is the problem. The problem is paying retail price for that Hu Lao Gate battle again with no real substantial reason to - I can't understand how Koei is getting away with such daylight robbery and more importantly, why we let them.

The closest comparison I can think of are Beat'em'ups but even they don't match the frequency that Koei has managed.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Kongming's Prodigy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:53 am

Ranbir wrote:
If I'm not whacking my opponents with a sharp or blunt object amidst hundreds of others, I don't consider it on the same comparative level as DW. And like I said, if it were to include shooters, Call of Duty 4 > all when it comes to a on-the-spot battlefield experience. And especially not online multiplayer battlefield shooters. As much as I like playing crap with my friends, it ruins any sort of immersion with authenticity.


Your misuse of inequalities is incorrect for CoD. Nothing like the premise of total battlefield experience provided by Battlefront, Operation Flashpoint, Armed Assault or Battlefield.. Your considerations are wrong. I don't think I should even start with the authentic line...as if somehow DW is more? What?

I feel like I'm on the field when playing Call of Duty, even if the immersion is an illusion. When I play Battlefield, Frontlines, etc, I feel like I'm doing team deathmatch with my friends. If you feel immersed by that kind of gameplay, fine by me. But wasn't that the point of my first post anyway? That individuals who don't loose grip of DW don't see the repetition? My point was that Battlefield, or any shooters, shouldn't be brought to the same table as games like DW. I don't see how you can make any sort of comparison between the two, other than the very basic backdrop of war. You have to be pretty damn confused if sniping feels the same as gutting. Also, I never said DW is authentic. I said Call of Duty is more authentic feeling than Battlefield, which, if shooters were worth comparing (which I already said I believe they aren't), Call of Duty 4 would be a better example of a successful "battlefield"-like game. I don't see where this discussion is going, if Call of Duty > Battlefield? :roll:

EDIT: Maybe I wasn't clear enough. By Call of Duty 4, I meant the solo campaign's level of immersion. Online, it's more team deathmatch. For those purposes, UT3 serves me well, thank you very much.

Ranbir wrote:
Ahem...


Ahem? Yes it's a Gamespot link with an underrated, shallow review. Very similar to Icewind Dale's expansion. And yeah, it's exactly the game I'm praising as have 99% of the people that played it. You'll find it was regarded as one the seriously underrated games of 2008 so far.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platfor ... d?q=viking

Uh..putting the blame on critics, are we? Isn't this how DW fell down the path back in, what, 2003? 2005? Good user reviews, terrible critic reviews, it's like I'm seeing double. I'm not saying that this game sucks or anything. It's great that people like it. People also like DW. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen any other developers make a success out of this genre (not that Koei's been much of a success either), and 68 on metacritic is not proof of success. Since word of mouth is terribly subjective, the only way I can find out is if I go out and play it. Unfortunately that's not on my agenda at the moment. :?

Ranbir wrote:The closest comparison I can think of are Beat'em'ups but even they don't match the frequency that Koei has managed.

But I thought there were like a million versions of Street Fighter.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby MistroPain » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:27 am

Well IMO ive always thought beat em ups have no way to move... therefore they actually have a valid reason to not add that many things unlike DW which has 1...2...3...six million things which they can add to the game, and has so much potential. For Street Fighter the best you can do is add better graphics (which theyve partially done) more moves (which theyve done) more characters (and too many would just make other characters pointless).
For DW you can add whole new ways of fighting, new ways of enviromental interactions, even add potential strategy to the game, a much longer in depth story, and much much more... and some of these things isnt doing too much to the game, how would adding a better in depth story ruin the game, how would adding enviromental interactions affect the game too much (IMO it would be more fun smashing troops into walls and stuff such as), and the one thing ive never understood is that they never updated the AI, there still as stupid as hell! They can do this all without even really changing the game type too much, so it might be harder, well to take away that feeling easy and normal could be made to be the same as they are now, but hard, chaos and those other ones could represent the difficulty that is meant to be played, kinda like how bungie immediatly stated that Halo 3 was MEANT to be played on Heroic.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Ranbir » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:09 am

Good user reviews, terrible critic reviews


Except user opinion is falling fast for Koei. As for success, we've got two sides to that. Koei is doing it financially(As is Creative) which is where our vote needs to sway them(but for some reason we won't). Critically, Viking has got a very varied response. Much moreso than DW 6. More importantly it is showing real progression and change, that is a success, regardless. We're here because DW are not progressing. CA are and the fact they've managed to do it in 2 attempts vs Koei's 18 is something which makes all the taste bitter at the multiple copies of Hu Lao Gate sitting on the shelf.

re:Streetfighter

Across 20 years and multiple platforms, which roughly and harshly counting reaches 17ish(Included main titles to console and crossovers). Koei has achieved that in just 8 years. 8 years.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Kongming's Prodigy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:43 am

Ranbir wrote:
Good user reviews, terrible critic reviews


Except user opinion is falling fast for Koei. As for success, we've got two sides to that. Koei is doing it financially(As is Creative) which is where our vote needs to sway them(but for some reason we won't). Critically, Viking has got a very varied response. Much moreso than DW 6. More importantly it is showing real progression and change, that is a success, regardless. We're here because DW are not progressing. CA are and the fact they've managed to do it in 2 attempts vs Koei's 18 is something which makes all the taste bitter at the multiple copies of Hu Lao Gate sitting on the shelf.

re:Streetfighter

Across 20 years and multiple platforms, which roughly and harshly counting reaches 17ish(Included main titles to console and crossovers). Koei has achieved that in just 8 years. 8 years.

To be honest, I do hope Creative Assembly is on the right track. I really wish there was a game with the atmosphere of Assassin's Creed, but instead of being Spiderman and hopping on rooftops, you get to play it out on the battlefield. Something that has realism and strategy at the same time, and not just a button masher. I partially blame pop-culture, and the US's current obsession with "asian" things and "ninjas"; it pretty much dilutes the quality of our games to mass-media trash. :evil:
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Ranbir » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:25 am

Well the closest thing there is to what you want, so far, is Viking. All we need to do is ensure our support keeps it going in the right direction.

You know, I'm even going to throw out Mount & Blade as one that's even closer to battlefield action, with great tactical control and ability to wage war across countries. Even capture castles, pillage villages etc. Plus, it's got the best mounted combat system around. Turkish husband and wife duo beat out what the hotshot big devs seem to have had trouble with all this time.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby talon1579 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:15 am

What did everyone think of Bladestorm and Kessen 3? I haven't played much of each, but both fo those seemed to be a good mix of strategy and action.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Ranbir » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:35 am

The combat did not feel fluid and the horrible AI didn't help things.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby James » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:12 pm

I should point out that I am quite certain Koei is very capable of innovating the Dynasty Warriors series. I think they deliberately choose not to. It is the only series which they focus primarily on Western culture and I can't help but to think they see it as their popular Western series (or rather, theme). Maybe they're afraid to, but they don't innovate it. They don't mess with the formula. Maybe they don't want to? Maybe they don't take it seriously enough and just hope to generate as much revenue as possible from it before it dies. In any case, I do get the feeling they devote enough resources to the series for it to simply side by to the next release, and little more.
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