Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:35 am

My favourite Koei game's are the Warriors Orochi series and that’s because they use my favourite characters from any computer game series (it really helps that Ce is the central character in the Wu storyline) but in a brand new plot. I'd happily see them continue doing fantasy style storylines with the characters. However that may just be me :lol:.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby SunXia » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:17 am

I love the Warriors Orochi games but there was a reason I stopped after the second!! Did they stop English VOs?? I can't listen to Japanese voices I just can't!!
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Jordan » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:18 am

I feel like the thing with Dynasty Warriors is that they've got their hands tied. They can't make a new or innovative game and call it "Dynasty Warriors" because it would almost be like false advertising. The fans of Dynasty Warriors have come to expect a certain kind of game and many of them would not accept something different. Koei is also not going to discontinue Dynasty Warriors because I guess it's making them money.

I've stopped buying the games but sometimes I'll rent them. My opinion on this series kind of flips back and forth. In the end though, what I'd really want Koei to do is branch off like they did with Dynasty Tactics, Kessen, etc. I really wouldn't mind at all if they made some legit Dynasty Warriors spinoffs either. I like one major aspect of Dynasty Warriors: The characters. If they could take those characters and make an RPG, a strategy game, a fighting game or even something wacky like a platforming game or 2D side scrolling beat em up or anything else conceivably fun, I think it'd be fantastic.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:30 pm

rippletoadz wrote:I personally don't complain too much about the repetitive nature of the series, since sports games do that too every year. The NFL doesn't change its rules every year dramatically, so the Madden games can't be too different aside from the graphics and new players.


I can't speak for American sports but in football/soccer, it can be very different. What tends to happen with PES/Fifa/Football manager is you get a massive rehual and then two or three years of tweaking (better graphics, updated rosters, tweak gameplay, maybe one or two new things) before the next reboot. Fifa, for example, utterly changed the way you defended. Besides each individual match can feel very different, with a shock possible, whereas, until 7, one could play Hefei on Chibi's side a zillion times each version without it changing in terms of feel.

Next bit not aimed at you rippletoadz

I have not tended to get the argument in defence of DW about repetitive by comparing to sports and shooters. Certainly feel dismissive towards those who then go and claim it is a reviewer conspiracy against poor little koei in favour of the evils of Call of Duty. I'm not a shooter fan but I did notice when I started Spec Ops that the controls were similar to various games I have played down the years. with said shooters, the best games have controls that feel natural and work well with the game but the gameplay (as in what happens on screen, pace, AI and surprises) stories, atmosphere, emotion and characters. One generally also plays the game and battles once in the story.

I think a few problems has been: DW botched their 4 and 6 revamps, some of the latter games felt a little out of date, expectations of what the games should be (high on tactics or Asgard like) compared to the kind of hack and slash that DW was and always will be. The XL and Empires expansion packs have provoked a lot of cynicism against the series but I think a big problem I had was the umpteen individual stories and characters. Characters and stories became a very mixed bag with some weakly written due to sheer amount (7 still had that problem with characters), playing the same battles so many times in each individual game got boring for me. 7 mostly fixed that: I only had to play each story once (tad concerned by 8 meaning 3-4 times each faction, might be a problem) and if the story/characters were good then I had a lot of fun. Wei, Jin, early Wu till about Zhou Yu being out of picture, Shu from Fan castle onwards (aka the human bit), I want to see the story unfold and the battles were fresh. Only playing Turbans three times and with camps then endings that made each Turban battle feel different even if the battle itself is the same. Quite enjoying conquest mode, may lack the story but still feels like I'm learning a bit about by the characters so that helps

I miss DT :(
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Stryke » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:55 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
rippletoadz wrote:I personally don't complain too much about the repetitive nature of the series, since sports games do that too every year. The NFL doesn't change its rules every year dramatically, so the Madden games can't be too different aside from the graphics and new players.


I can't speak for American sports but in football/soccer, it can be very different. What tends to happen with PES/Fifa/Football manager is you get a massive rehual and then two or three years of tweaking (better graphics, updated rosters, tweak gameplay, maybe one or two new things) before the next reboot. Fifa, for example, utterly changed the way you defended. Besides each individual match can feel very different, with a shock possible, whereas, until 7, one could play Hefei on Chibi's side a zillion times each version without it changing in terms of feel.

Next bit not aimed at you rippletoadz

I have not tended to get the argument in defence of DW about repetitive by comparing to sports and shooters. Certainly feel dismissive towards those who then go and claim it is a reviewer conspiracy against poor little koei in favour of the evils of Call of Duty. I'm not a shooter fan but I did notice when I started Spec Ops that the controls were similar to various games I have played down the years. with said shooters, the best games have controls that feel natural and work well with the game but the gameplay (as in what happens on screen, pace, AI and surprises) stories, atmosphere, emotion and characters. One generally also plays the game and battles once in the story.

I think a few problems has been: DW botched their 4 and 6 revamps, some of the latter games felt a little out of date, expectations of what the games should be (high on tactics or Asgard like) compared to the kind of hack and slash that DW was and always will be. The XL and Empires expansion packs have provoked a lot of cynicism against the series but I think a big problem I had was the umpteen individual stories and characters. Characters and stories became a very mixed bag with some weakly written due to sheer amount (7 still had that problem with characters), playing the same battles so many times in each individual game got boring for me. 7 mostly fixed that: I only had to play each story once (tad concerned by 8 meaning 3-4 times each faction, might be a problem) and if the story/characters were good then I had a lot of fun. Wei, Jin, early Wu till about Zhou Yu being out of picture, Shu from Fan castle onwards (aka the human bit), I want to see the story unfold and the battles were fresh. Only playing Turbans three times and with camps then endings that made each Turban battle feel different even if the battle itself is the same. Quite enjoying conquest mode, may lack the story but still feels like I'm learning a bit about by the characters so that helps

I miss DT :(


I agree largely with your criticism of repetition within the DW series, the same criticism that I would offer to the sports and FPS series mentioned above. One publisher pushing one out every year does not justify another publisher doing the same.

Dynasty Warriors 7, however, seemed to have the highest quality of improvement to the series since DW 3. For the first time in a Dynasty Warrior game, the Three Kingdoms story, which people all over the world love, was actually embraced. Instead of having the story as a short monologue before the battle, the story actually was the game (at least the 'main mode'). Now this is strictly my own opinion, but I feel like Koei still failed in portraying half the story. Wei's side of the story I felt was fantastic. Cao Cao, as he should be, was the most interesting character of the game as well as the driving force behind the Wei story, fulfilling the role of anti-hero. He didn't fall into the familiar 2d role of 'ambition', which the Shu and Wu storyline still suffered from, and you could feel a range of emotions and motivation coming from Cao Cao. The most memorable part of the Wei campaign was Dian Wei's death for this very reason. Not only was it tragic for the first time in the season, but Koei actually showed the impact it had on Cao Cao's character. The loss of life throughout the story was itself turned into a character motivation and reason for continuing.

Mentioning DT, it managed this from the very first game while maintaining very enjoyable gameplay. I hope we get a DT 3 one day.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:47 pm

Stryke wrote:I agree largely with your criticism of repetition within the DW series, the same criticism that I would offer to the sports and FPS series mentioned above. One publisher pushing one out every year does not justify another publisher doing the same.


I think that is more a complaint about the money making ways of game companies. I suppose sports could avoid it by a major patch to reflect transfers and update players

Yes, DW7 was probably the first reform game that really worked. I think Shu and Wu's problem was lack of human warmth. Wu had that when it was a tight-knit Sun family but once most were dead or gone, they never really managed to replace it while the "emotion scenes" tended to be wrecked by Sun Quan being a massive drama queen with poor voice work. Shu was good once it remembered humanity but for so long in their story, they were led by a moronic propaganda robot and there was rarely a human moment. Rarely a time when Shu figures weren't saluting the flag of virtue, rarely a time when they relaxed and acted like humans with friendly conversations.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:32 pm

From my experience, the series hit rock bottom for me with DW6. I never recovered from the lack of detail the creators put into the game. I stated I would consider purchasing DW7 but then because I didn't like what I saw in the characters in screenshots, trailers, and other short videos I passed it up. DW8 does seem viable but it's not a game I would take my free money and invest in. I'd rather save that for the special edition of Madden 25. Maybe one day I might return to the series but it doesn't look like it would be too soon. I'm more of a RTK fan now and I agree with Jordan that the company should make a RPG based on the characters from DW if it wants to do another spin-off.
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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby SunXia » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:56 pm

I saw what they were trying to do with DW6, reinvent and add new things to the series but they alienated a lot of their base with those changes like eliminating too many characters and weapons and changing too many characters!!

DW6 is the only one I haven't kept of the series, every other game I still have and will show them to my nephew when he gets over his Harry Potter obsession!!
If becoming enlightened or an intellectual means I must become arrogant and coldly cynical about the world around me then I'd gladly remain a fool for the rest of my life!!

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Re: Thoughts From a Once Hardcore Fan

Unread postby Iain » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:59 pm

Speaking as another hardcore fan of the DW series, I picked up DW2 along with my PS2 at launch and out of the 20 or so other games that came out with that system launch DW2 was the only one I could say people I knew were still playing a year or too later in fact right up to the DW3 launch for many.

Now we are up to what seven games now with assorted add-on's like Empires and XL and the series still manages to attract attention, personally I thought the franchise was dead with DW6 being what I felt was its weakest effort, but it still manages to move on, I was re-visiting DW7 this last weekend and its still a solid game.
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