New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

How many new females do you want?

1
5
7%
2-4
22
30%
5-8
6
8%
MORE MORE MORE
21
29%
None!
19
26%
 
Total votes : 73

Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Lady Wu » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:04 am

I don't want any more "historical" females in DW. I have yet to suffer DW6, but judging from how absolutely boring Xing Cai was in DW5, and how absolutely insulting it was to have the Qiaos always tagging onto the coattails of their husbands (instead of doing some stuff on their own and having an identity apart from so-and-so's wife), I think I'd be horrified if they tried another "historically plausible" woman.

Cai Yan has a cool story but I cannot for the life of me imagine her fighting. It kinda ruins her story as a literary person. To me it'd be like having Chen Lin or Wang Can on the field... ugh.

If they're gonna add a woman, I say they should go all out and make up a good story to go with her. Else don't bother. One possibility that came to mind would be a fictional daughter of Cao Cao's by Lady Zou (Zhang Xiu's aunt, bwahaha). Her story could be about how she's torn between accepting Cao Cao as her father and rejecting him for having destroyed her mom. It's kinda soap opera-ish but I think it has far more potential than the stupid Zuo Ci thing in DW5 (he stuck out like a sore thumb, and his motifs for annoying the hell out of Cao Cao are completely unclear). Or what about that daughter of Cao Cao's who was made to marry Emperor Xian, and who stood up for Xian when Cao Pi demanded Xian's imperial seal? She could have a cool stage where she has to defend Emp. Xian and beat off Cao Pi's minions. Wu has enough girls for now... Shu... Ma Yunlu does have future (I'm probably just saying that because she's featured in the Legend of Lu Bu mod and has a decently developed character--but I know she's popular in general too).
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Corrino » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:31 am

Lady Wu wrote:I don't want any more "historical" females in DW. I have yet to suffer DW6, but judging from how absolutely boring Xing Cai was in DW5, and how absolutely insulting it was to have the Qiaos always tagging onto the coattails of their husbands (instead of doing some stuff on their own and having an identity apart from so-and-so's wife), I think I'd be horrified if they tried another "historically plausible" woman.

Cai Yan has a cool story but I cannot for the life of me imagine her fighting. It kinda ruins her story as a literary person. To me it'd be like having Chen Lin or Wang Can on the field... ugh.

If they're gonna add a woman, I say they should go all out and make up a good story to go with her. Else don't bother. One possibility that came to mind would be a fictional daughter of Cao Cao's by Lady Zou (Zhang Xiu's aunt, bwahaha). Her story could be about how she's torn between accepting Cao Cao as her father and rejecting him for having destroyed her mom. It's kinda soap opera-ish but I think it has far more potential than the stupid Zuo Ci thing in DW5 (he stuck out like a sore thumb, and his motifs for annoying the hell out of Cao Cao are completely unclear). Or what about that daughter of Cao Cao's who was made to marry Emperor Xian, and who stood up for Xian when Cao Pi demanded Xian's imperial seal? She could have a cool stage where she has to defend Emp. Xian and beat off Cao Pi's minions. Wu has enough girls for now... Shu... Ma Yunlu does have future (I'm probably just saying that because she's featured in the Legend of Lu Bu mod and has a decently developed character--but I know she's popular in general too).


Excellent reply, I think that Cao Cao's ficticious daughter would fit quite well with the DW theme of things. As you said Wu = no more women and Ma Yunlu could work well so long as they put that little bit extra effort into her character. However I will still support Cai Yan's implimentation, perhaps as a narrator or as a tutorial/helper on the main menu, practices, etc.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:03 pm

I don't like women characters generally but Lu Ling Qi is my first choise. Can you imagine her kicking butt along side her father? She could have a good story line to carrying on his legacy or uniting China under Yuan Shu.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:27 pm

Lady Wu, isn't that a problem with bad use of the woman rather then historical woman being a bad idea? While I like your idea's, can you trust koei somehow won't make a mess if they can't do Xing Cai right?
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Lady Wu » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:58 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Lady Wu, isn't that a problem with bad use of the woman rather then historical woman being a bad idea? While I like your idea's, can you trust koei somehow won't make a mess if they can't do Xing Cai right?

Well, first, Koei shouldn't be allowed to put in another female character until they get Xing Cai right. :rangry:

I guess my point about historical women has two parts. First, inventing a person from scratch would give them more room to create a good story, rather than having to be bound by historical expectations. We all complain about Xing Cai (who's pretty much fictional), but she's a lot better than the Qiaos in terms of character and story (she didn't have to tag along with Liu Shan all the time, and she was allowed to have this little bit of a thing with Guan Ping). Whereas the Qiaos are limited by their historical relationship with Sun Ce/Zhou Yu, and are really annoying because of that. Plus it makes Sun Ce and Zhou Yu look like pervs.

Secondly, I have a hard time imagining plausible DW-worthy storylines for all the historical characters mentioned. A lot of them are so-and-so's wife, and will suffer from the so-and-so's-wife-syndrome that currently afflicts the Qiaos, Yue Ying, and Diaochan (as in, they have no personality of their own and every other sentence they say invokes their husbands' names). Lady Guo will just be a female Cao Pi; Lady Bian a female Cao Cao; Lady Wu a female Sun Jian. Sun Luban would be an annoying version of SSX.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:58 pm

Lady Wu wrote:Secondly, I have a hard time imagining plausible DW-worthy storylines for all the historical characters mentioned. A lot of them are so-and-so's wife, and will suffer from the so-and-so's-wife-syndrome that currently afflicts the Qiaos, Yue Ying, and Diaochan (as in, they have no personality of their own and every other sentence they say invokes their husbands' names). Lady Guo will just be a female Cao Pi; Lady Bian a female Cao Cao; Lady Wu a female Sun Jian. Sun Luban would be an annoying version of SSX.


I understand your point here, but the thing that really makes Koei's attempts infuriating is that it's possible to do the 'so-and-so's-wife thing' correctly, particularly when there's so much room to do the personality and character development in the original material, even if you are engaging in further dramatic licence. I thought that DW5's SSX might have been a good example of this, as they did make an attempt to capture her internal torment being torn between loyalty to her brother and loyalty to her husband. It would have been better if in DW5, for example, they'd done more with Zhen Luo than to just to do the clueless one-dimensional 'wellp, I guess I'm Cao Pi's wife now'. I mean, come on! They could have done something with her missing Yuan Xi or being angry with him for having abandoned her at Ye, at first being repulsed by Cao Pi but then maybe charmed with him, or something.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that I agree with you completely, but it's frustrating in that I can see how they could do it better when I know from experience that they just plain won't. At the same time, though, I don't see why they should be trusted with another entirely fictional female character...

Also (I don't have a PS3 so I don't know this for a fact, but) doesn't SSX already have an annoying clone? From what I hear from SunXia, DW6's SSX is the annoying version of SSX. :P
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:06 pm

I am curious how they would portray Emperor Xian's wife, since in the novel yes, she fights valiantly against her brother's plan to overthrow the government, but in history her tone was much more icy.
At least... what I read as a footnote in my copy of RoTK, her attitude towards him in... ZZTJ, ot the TS perhaps? She mocks his house and commends her brother. If they stuck that attitude on her, it could be interesting... of course, Xian would need to be a character, for that to work... then again there is Xing Cai...

Hah, hard to say...
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:17 pm

Xu Yuan wrote: then again there is Xing Cai...


Thats a very GOOD reason why they'd need to make Xian a character. Another Xing Cai's the last thing we need. *shudders violently to himself*.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Lady Wu » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:32 pm

WeiWenDi wrote:I understand your point here, but the thing that really makes Koei's attempts infuriating is that it's possible to do the 'so-and-so's-wife thing' correctly, particularly when there's so much room to do the personality and character development in the original material, even if you are engaging in further dramatic licence.

Hence my "Koei shouldn't be allowed to put in another female character until they get Xing Cai right." :D

I guess that applies to all existing female characters...

The feminist part of me wants to say that it's all because the chauvinist pigs at Koei can't get out of the "women should be obedient wives" mentality. Therefore, when a female character is identified as someone's wife, they are nothing but someone's wife. That's why I was thinking, if they can't break out of that kind of thinking, perhaps they'd fare better with a woman who's not so identified as being a wife first and foremost.

But I agree with you that it's all completely infuriating...
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:51 pm

One of the reasons I suggested Cao Jie, in the RoTK novel, yes, she is loyal, yet another book has her exactly the opposite, in where she openly berates her husband. History says she tried to uphold the House of Han, but ZZTJ (or TS?) says otherwise, I would love to see that aspect of her. Kind of, sort of, like Lady Noh, but without the twisted attitude of the character. Of course, Cao Jie need not be that from the start. While she would fight for her family, (kind of like Shang Xiang...) she would Only be fighting for her family. No half love story, it would make Xian that much more pitiable. In essence she could be instrumental in overthrowing the Han in later stages, of course, I don't have much more of an idea for her then that. But aside from Cai Yan, she's the only female I can think of not bound to a husband.
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