New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

How many new females do you want?

1
5
7%
2-4
22
30%
5-8
6
8%
MORE MORE MORE
21
29%
None!
19
26%
 
Total votes : 73

Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon May 11, 2015 1:36 pm

Shen Ai wrote:
DragonAtma wrote:Remember, Da Ji was mainly know for her effect on the infatuated emperor of Shang, so it';s only natural she had a stripperlike look.

It's the same reason why Yue Ying (who supposedly was highly intelligent but unattractive) originally showed very little skin.


Eh, I think it works rather counter productively then, because Yue Ying has always been one of the prettier characters for me personally.


I'm not sure koei has got the concept that sometimes less is more. I prefer a covered up Yue Ying to some of the Zhen Ji has had in recent games for example
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Tue May 12, 2015 5:34 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:I'm not sure koei has got the concept that sometimes less is more. I prefer a covered up Yue Ying to some of the Zhen Ji has had in recent games for example


Particularly in Dynasty Warriors 8 where Yue Ying has probably the best design among the women and Zhen Ji has her old Dynasty Warriors 6 outfit again. Yue Ying's is both appealing, functional, and matches her husband quite nicely. Zhen Ji's seems a tad out of place.

Though, Zhen Ji has a character feels out of place.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby SunXia » Wed May 13, 2015 2:21 pm

If a woman wants to wear something skimpy, even if that person feels they need attention, that is completely fine and her choice to do so as it is her body. However, when female bodies have absolutely no diversity to them and are created to "sell sex" and "sell the female form" to people with penises, that's where it gets bad.

Not to mention it make it worse because they don't develop the female characters so it simply becomes "boobs" or "legs" or "underwear with billowing skirts" or "other things that sell to men" that it becomes teetering on the edge of misogyny because you are mistreating the female characters and just giving them identities of "that's a female created for males who are at most wives/daughters". That is lazy and insulting creativity.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Wed May 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Wit the lack of characterization design is pretty much Koei's best way of making them stand out as figures. Unfortunately. So the skimpy clothing route is taken.

I'm not quite as forgiving. Bao Sanniang in Guan Suo's Fictional Adventures is described as a great warrior, a tall proud woman, and one who wears heavy armour and is a master of numerous weapons. She is stronger than her father and brothers and Guan Suo's equal.

Koei portrayed her as a dimwitted stalker who wears next to nothing and who Guan Suo is more creeped out by than anything else. With that kind of source material to be turned into this, it's hard not to believe Koei was being outright insulting to the character.

I also have to complain that they edited out most of the romantic subplots. Characters like Cao Pi and Lu Bu feel really, really dry without Diao Chan and Zhen Ji being active parts of their story and characters. It's fine not to make characters all about their significant other, but it really defined Lu Bu's story for example.

And Yue Ying and Zhuge Liang. Do they even talk? It's kind of a pity Koei chooses to just relegate Yue Ying and Zhen Ji as support for their husbands rather than exploring the meat of their relationship. Zhuge Liang is well designed and a great figure, but he lacks a lot of tangible personality. Yue Ying and him could have a great relationship that should be explored. They're both intellectuals, and we don't get to see anything substantial between them.

It happens with Sima Zhao and Wang Yuanji as well. At this point, why don't they just ditch Wang Yuanji entirely and marry Jia Chong to Sima Zhao? He's completely absorbed her role as a key moral advisor.

They do better with Sun Quan and Lian Shi... but Sun Quan has to be the most boring factional leader in the games so his relationships inspire very little feeling from me. Sun Ce's relationship with Da Qiao could be well explored... but she looks more like his daughter than anything, so any real romantic notions would creep the hell out of most western fans at least. Likewise with Zhou Yu. And there's no Lady Wu, so there's Sun Jian gone.


There doesn't have to be front and centre romance if Koei wants to avoid that, but Zhen Ji, Diao Chan, Wang Yuanji etc. are pretty much just support figures to their husbands. Props in the story. If you cut out Zhen Ji (which honestly I don't know they haven't already) it wouldn't be much of a loss.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu May 14, 2015 3:17 pm

I did like Zhen Ji in 8 in the all too rare occasions she turns up.

DW can do good female characters and good romances but that requires the character to get a light shone on them, else they flicker for a few seconds (8 Zhen Ji), annoy or just not really there. We did seem to get some good new woman characters in 7 who got utterly sidelined in 8 (or in BSN's case, fun in XL and the DW7 conquest, utterly excluded outside that in both games). What does get me is that the males, even in conquest mode like quotes, rarely seem to acknowledge they are married at all. The wife worships the floor with men who just don't care whatsoever for the females and just want to be with their male friends.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Human5 » Fri May 15, 2015 12:22 am

Dong Zhou wrote:I did like Zhen Ji in 8 in the all too rare occasions she turns up.

DW can do good female characters and good romances but that requires the character to get a light shone on them, else they flicker for a few seconds (8 Zhen Ji), annoy or just not really there. We did seem to get some good new woman characters in 7 who got utterly sidelined in 8 (or in BSN's case, fun in XL and the DW7 conquest, utterly excluded outside that in both games). What does get me is that the males, even in conquest mode like quotes, rarely seem to acknowledge they are married at all. The wife worships the floor with men who just don't care whatsoever for the females and just want to be with their male friends.


Sounds true to history. To be honest, more story and character for female characters would be a good thing as long as the game doesn't turn into a massive love story.
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri May 15, 2015 3:49 pm

In fairness, I'm pretty sure the historic men are aware they are married. Not always so sure about the DW men :P
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby SunXia » Fri May 15, 2015 9:07 pm

Pretty sure some of the histories were later turned into massive love stories. But yeah I agree, I actually preferred it when Sun Shang Xiang killed Liu Bei at the end of her story instead of this staying with him, I prefer her being more loyal to the family!!
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat May 16, 2015 5:00 pm

I would like koei when, like the SSX/Liu Bei, have multipe choice for how it goes/ends, to flick between the options. Keeps it fresh, keeps people guessing. I do enjoy a good romance but a romantic tradegy or an unhappy marriage would stand out in contrast to the others
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Re: New women characters, How many you want, who you want?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue May 19, 2015 8:34 am

I don't know if this is still the case but back in the day Meng Huo at least use to remember that he was married...
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