Most embarrassing character

Koei’s Dynasty Warriors game series. Discuss and enjoy!

Most cringeworthy...

Cow Pee... uh, Cao Pi
4
3%
Ma "eat my justice" Chao
12
9%
*giggle* Xiao *gigglegiggle* Qiao *giggle*
23
17%
Zhang Jiao... oh Heavvvvveeeeennnnnssss!
27
20%
Zhuge Liang---he MEANT to be that way...
2
2%
La Vita di Zhang He e bella!
45
34%
Others (explain!)
19
14%
 
Total votes : 132

Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:38 pm

Not a big fan of the Li Dian addition. His career seemed too short and his historical basis was too reserved to make that good of a character off of.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Antiochus » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Shen Ai wrote:Not a big fan of the Li Dian addition. His career seemed too short and his historical basis was too reserved to make that good of a character off of.


This will likely become a running theme of the Dynasty Warriors games if it goes on as a series...
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:34 pm

Antiochus wrote:
Shen Ai wrote:Not a big fan of the Li Dian addition. His career seemed too short and his historical basis was too reserved to make that good of a character off of.


This will likely become a running theme of the Dynasty Warriors games if it goes on as a series...


I think there's plenty of interesting, colourful characters they could add to Wei for the future of the series. Cao Zhen and Zang Ba come to mind. Li Dian was just a poor pick in my eyes. Or, at least how they developed the character. I'd like to maybe see more of that scholarly side to him, and maybe show his reluctance to field an army more.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Antiochus » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:58 pm

I agree on both count.

Though I wonder which Cao Zhen it would be. According to the SGZ, he did rather well (all things considered), while the book mostly uses him to make Sima Yi look good in comparison. But there is something to be said about a commander who effectively delegate and who is beloved by his soldiers...

As for Li Dian, I always assumed he was made playable for two reason:
1- He is too closely associated with Yue Jin not to become playable when he did.
2- Dynasty warriors is built around battles rather than characters (in terms of gameplay). This is why it is easier to make characters out of Pang De and Li Dian rather than Chen Qun, Jiang Wan or Zhuge Jin. And Li Dian was present in one of the key battles that can serve as a turning point for Wu and Wei.
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Antiochus » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:09 pm

But interestingly, on a narrative point of view, I'm starting to think that the best way to make Dynasty Warriors better would be to find a way to do with Wu and Shu what was effectively done with Wei and Jin; cutting the long chronology of the Three Kingdoms in half. By separating Jin from Wei, they managed to make the Musou mode for Wei all about Cao Cao and give it more narrative cohesion, while making the second part about the Sima family (with a certain focus on Sima Zhao).

On the other hand,the Wu and Shu stories have a more scatter-shot approach, as they have more events to cover. It is especially jarring with Shu, as the transition feels pretty harsh after Fan Castle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those story modes are bad, but I think they lack the effectiveness of their Wei and Jin counterparts. Also, I am aware that this cut is simplified by the fact that Jin can be considered as its own kingdom, while, Zhuge Liang's regency is still Shu in every way.

I guess I would like to see those stories expanded as well, and they found a clever way to it with Wei.
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:58 am

Antiochus wrote:But interestingly, on a narrative point of view, I'm starting to think that the best way to make Dynasty Warriors better would be to find a way to do with Wu and Shu what was effectively done with Wei and Jin; cutting the long chronology of the Three Kingdoms in half. By separating Jin from Wei, they managed to make the Musou mode for Wei all about Cao Cao and give it more narrative cohesion, while making the second part about the Sima family (with a certain focus on Sima Zhao).

On the other hand,the Wu and Shu stories have a more scatter-shot approach, as they have more events to cover. It is especially jarring with Shu, as the transition feels pretty harsh after Fan Castle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those story modes are bad, but I think they lack the effectiveness of their Wei and Jin counterparts. Also, I am aware that this cut is simplified by the fact that Jin can be considered as its own kingdom, while, Zhuge Liang's regency is still Shu in every way.

I guess I would like to see those stories expanded as well, and they found a clever way to it with Wei.


One of the things that disapointed me most about DW8 was that I wasn't able to play as Shu-Han post Wu Zhang. I know that previous games do the same but it makes characters like Jiang Wei, Zhang Bao, Guan Xing and others rather wasteful as the vast majority of their screentime is when you are playing as Jin. Same with the later Wu heroes, they appear in a couple of missions and then done as they appear so late in the story.
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:39 pm

On Li Dian: I kind of assumed he got added in due to his role in Hefei, koei just completing the three set. I didn't think he was a bad potential add, a solid but unspectacular one, they went for something a bit different then I was guessing. I would say he is fine but not memorable.

On narrative, I tend to find Shu's problems to be that it can be guilty of forgetting the characters are human and not propaganda robots. I agree the shift between Liu Bei's era to Zhuge Liang's could be far better though. With Wu, they sometimes lack a big charismatic driving figure in the latter stages of the playable story and so it peters out as I'm not following Sun Quan with much fondness. Wu does quite well transition from leader to leader (I felt Jin did well in that in 7, not so well in 8).

In terms of the latter era, it would be fun to play as late Shu or late Wu. Right now, late Shu is done reasonably well given it is only seen through Jin eyes, late Wei and Wu on the other hand... I think a set cut off point and then a "latter Shu" or "latter Wu" story would be a good idea.
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:On Li Dian: I kind of assumed he got added in due to his role in Hefei, koei just completing the three set. I didn't think he was a bad potential add, a solid but unspectacular one, they went for something a bit different then I was guessing. I would say he is fine but not memorable.

On narrative, I tend to find Shu's problems to be that it can be guilty of forgetting the characters are human and not propaganda robots. I agree the shift between Liu Bei's era to Zhuge Liang's could be far better though. With Wu, they sometimes lack a big charismatic driving figure in the latter stages of the playable story and so it peters out as I'm not following Sun Quan with much fondness. Wu does quite well transition from leader to leader (I felt Jin did well in that in 7, not so well in 8).

In terms of the latter era, it would be fun to play as late Shu or late Wu. Right now, late Shu is done reasonably well given it is only seen through Jin eyes, late Wei and Wu on the other hand... I think a set cut off point and then a "latter Shu" or "latter Wu" story would be a good idea.


I agree with the last bit. If you have played Samurai Warriors 4 they can do something like that. Have campaigns for the start of each faction and then unlock a new campaign after completing them for a later time. Baiscally have 3 starter campaigns for Sun, Cao, and Liu. After you finish all of them unlock Wei, Wu, and Shu-Han campaigns to tell their later history. Also the formation of Jin should be in the campaign, not ending with the collapse of Shu-Han.
Also having mini campaigns for Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu, Lu Bu, and others (Come on Gongsun Zan mini campaign! and Dong Zhuo!)
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:59 pm

Antiochus wrote:I agree on both count.

Though I wonder which Cao Zhen it would be. According to the SGZ, he did rather well (all things considered), while the book mostly uses him to make Sima Yi look good in comparison. But there is something to be said about a commander who effectively delegate and who is beloved by his soldiers...

As for Li Dian, I always assumed he was made playable for two reason:
1- He is too closely associated with Yue Jin not to become playable when he did.
2- Dynasty warriors is built around battles rather than characters (in terms of gameplay). This is why it is easier to make characters out of Pang De and Li Dian rather than Chen Qun, Jiang Wan or Zhuge Jin. And Li Dian was present in one of the key battles that can serve as a turning point for Wu and Wei.


Personally I'm hoping it's the historical Cao Zhen. He did better than Sima Yi against Zhuge Liang, and to degrade him to make Sima Yi look good was as bad as making Cao Mao a snivelling coward to make Sima Zhao and Jia Chong look good.

He (Li Dian) could be a good addition, they just need to develop him more. It's a problem they have with a lot of characters.

@Dong Zhou I definitely lose all interest in Wu after Zhou Yu's death. In DW7 especially, Sun Jian and Sun Ce are so charismatic, and Sun Quan with his bad voice acting and rather Liu Bei-lite personality feels like a letdown.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
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Re: Most embarrassing character

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:46 pm

I would perhaps unlock the latter camapigns once you have played Jin's. As for Cao Zhen, I think the problem for koei adding him will be that balance. They want the Sima vs Zhuge so you either get a joke Cao Zhen or Sima Yi being diminished as the super intelligent guy whose knowledge of his great brain leads to Sima's going rogue.



Shen Ai wrote:@Dong Zhou I definitely lose all interest in Wu after Zhou Yu's death. In DW7 especially, Sun Jian and Sun Ce are so charismatic, and Sun Quan with his bad voice acting and rather Liu Bei-lite personality feels like a letdown.
Same here
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